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Yes, but is it really cool when anyone can do it? You could use any store bought racing bike (with minor tweaks) to do this. The only reason that you can set 'r

by honzzz 13y ago

Yes, but is it really cool when anyone can do it? You could use any store bought racing bike (with minor tweaks) to do this. The only reason that you can set 'records' like this is basically because real racers with real top bikes do not value speed achieved by being dragged behind some aerodynamic shield and therefore there is no competition. I don't want to sound disrespectful but I have to admit that I was disappointed. I expected something innovative like what Graeme Obree did - that was what I call 'cool'.

rytis 13y ago
But he didn't "use any store bought racing bike". He built one himself. I can't do that. Can you?
- honzzz 13y ago
  I understand that building racing bikes is his profession. I am not trying to be sarcastic here - I just really do not get what is cool about a bike builder building a bike which (to me) seems to be not so special (if the bike were able to do 80 mph without the car... then I would be smitten). Obviously, I might be missing something. And apparently... many people admire that guy and I don't want to be a 'killjoy' - everybody doing their job well and with enthusiasm deserves admiration and I respect that.
jrockway 13y ago
real racers with real top bikes do not value speed achieved by being dragged behind some aerodynamic shield I know you're trolling, but I wanted to point out that, except for time trials, this is the entire sport of cycling. The "aerodynamic shield" is your competitors.
- lutusp 13y ago
  > The "aerodynamic shield" is your competitors. True. It would be interesting to see a careful analysis of the (probably small but nonzero) benefit of being at the front of a large pack of cyclists, on the basis that the negative air pressure wake behind the front cyclist is reduced by the other riders. I'll probably discover this has been fully analyzed. On the negative side, a tightly packed group of cyclists sometimes crash spectacularly.
- honzzz 13y ago
  No, I am not 'trolling' at all, I am just expressing my opinion and trying to provide some feedback about newsworthiness of the article and related HN post. You might disagree with me but that does not make me a troll and I find the accusation highly offensive. And although aerodynamic drag is important part of cycling tactic, the goal of the sport of cycling (ideally) is to determine who is stronger, has more stamina etc. It is obvious that the speed could be increased by technical means like specially built cars serving as aerodynamic shields - but that is not what the sport is about, is it? That is also why this is not allowed in races and why I claim it is not valued by racers. You are comparing apples and oranges.
  - DougBTX 13y ago
    > the goal of the sport of cycling (ideally) is to determine who is stronger, has more stamina etc An individual time trial works like that. Team events and races bring in more group dynamics, it isn't one man against the clock in most events.
    - honzzz 13y ago
      This seems so obvious to me that I really do not understand how can anybody not see that. Is the difference between a man fighting with other men (where other men are obviously part of the race) and someone hiding behind the car not clear? Maybe it's because I used to race myself and I have been influenced by 'cycling ethics' - hiding behind the car was considered 'cowardly' and only tolerated under very special circumstances like when you had some technical difficulty so they had to give you reserve bike and now you are compensating your bad luck and getting back to the peloton drifting behind your team's car.
  - jasonlotito 13y ago
    > newsworthiness of the article and related HN post. This is far more worth of HN than you give it credit for. In fact, it's exactly the type of post that should be featured here. Edit: This is far more worthwhile than yet another article on Snowden, that's for damn sure. > that does not make me a troll and I find the accusation highly offensive. Maybe you weren't trolling, but what did you think was going to happen when you posted what amounted to an anti-hacker comment on "Hacker News?" From your previous post: > is it really cool when anyone can do it Yes. In fact, it's much cooler when anyone can do it. That is practically one of the central tenets of the hacker culture.
- lambda 13y ago
  I do think that there is a substantial difference in how interesting it is to use a fast motorized vehicle as an aerodynamic shield, vs. using your competitors (and teammates) in a peleton. The first feels like "cheating" in a sense, as bicycling is supposed to take advantage only of human power, while the second adds a fascinating strategic dimension to racing. That said, I do think the original video has merit. Yes, cycling in the aerodynamic wake of a car is substantially different than cycling entirely under your own power, but it is still a neat thing to try and see how far you can push it.
- davidw 13y ago
  Big races are won in the time trials and mountain stages. In the former, there is no "shield". In the later, there are still tactics, but they tend to not be as important as raw climbing power unless someone makes a big mistake.
SeanDav 13y ago
So if almost anyone can do anything if they really wanted to, then applying your logic - no one would do anything.

by honzzz 13y ago

rytis 13y ago

But he didn't "use any store bought racing bike". He built one himself. I can't do that. Can you?

honzzz 13y ago
I understand that building racing bikes is his profession. I am not trying to be sarcastic here - I just really do not get what is cool about a bike builder building a bike which (to me) seems to be not so special (if the bike were able to do 80 mph without the car... then I would be smitten). Obviously, I might be missing something. And apparently... many people admire that guy and I don't want to be a 'killjoy' - everybody doing their job well and with enthusiasm deserves admiration and I respect that.

jrockway 13y ago

real racers with real top bikes do not value speed achieved by being dragged behind some aerodynamic shield I know you're trolling, but I wanted to point out that, except for time trials, this is the entire sport of cycling. The "aerodynamic shield" is your competitors.

lutusp 13y ago
> The "aerodynamic shield" is your competitors. True. It would be interesting to see a careful analysis of the (probably small but nonzero) benefit of being at the front of a large pack of cyclists, on the basis that the negative air pressure wake behind the front cyclist is reduced by the other riders. I'll probably discover this has been fully analyzed. On the negative side, a tightly packed group of cyclists sometimes crash spectacularly.
honzzz 13y ago
No, I am not 'trolling' at all, I am just expressing my opinion and trying to provide some feedback about newsworthiness of the article and related HN post. You might disagree with me but that does not make me a troll and I find the accusation highly offensive. And although aerodynamic drag is important part of cycling tactic, the goal of the sport of cycling (ideally) is to determine who is stronger, has more stamina etc. It is obvious that the speed could be increased by technical means like specially built cars serving as aerodynamic shields - but that is not what the sport is about, is it? That is also why this is not allowed in races and why I claim it is not valued by racers. You are comparing apples and oranges.
- DougBTX 13y ago
  > the goal of the sport of cycling (ideally) is to determine who is stronger, has more stamina etc An individual time trial works like that. Team events and races bring in more group dynamics, it isn't one man against the clock in most events.
  - honzzz 13y ago
    This seems so obvious to me that I really do not understand how can anybody not see that. Is the difference between a man fighting with other men (where other men are obviously part of the race) and someone hiding behind the car not clear? Maybe it's because I used to race myself and I have been influenced by 'cycling ethics' - hiding behind the car was considered 'cowardly' and only tolerated under very special circumstances like when you had some technical difficulty so they had to give you reserve bike and now you are compensating your bad luck and getting back to the peloton drifting behind your team's car.
- jasonlotito 13y ago
  > newsworthiness of the article and related HN post. This is far more worth of HN than you give it credit for. In fact, it's exactly the type of post that should be featured here. Edit: This is far more worthwhile than yet another article on Snowden, that's for damn sure. > that does not make me a troll and I find the accusation highly offensive. Maybe you weren't trolling, but what did you think was going to happen when you posted what amounted to an anti-hacker comment on "Hacker News?" From your previous post: > is it really cool when anyone can do it Yes. In fact, it's much cooler when anyone can do it. That is practically one of the central tenets of the hacker culture.
lambda 13y ago
I do think that there is a substantial difference in how interesting it is to use a fast motorized vehicle as an aerodynamic shield, vs. using your competitors (and teammates) in a peleton. The first feels like "cheating" in a sense, as bicycling is supposed to take advantage only of human power, while the second adds a fascinating strategic dimension to racing. That said, I do think the original video has merit. Yes, cycling in the aerodynamic wake of a car is substantially different than cycling entirely under your own power, but it is still a neat thing to try and see how far you can push it.
davidw 13y ago
Big races are won in the time trials and mountain stages. In the former, there is no "shield". In the later, there are still tactics, but they tend to not be as important as raw climbing power unless someone makes a big mistake.

SeanDav 13y ago

So if almost anyone can do anything if they really wanted to, then applying your logic - no one would do anything.