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I get that UX is not UI. I really do. The one thing that consistently confuses me is that when someone explains what UX is, it always ends up being explained i

I get that UX is not UI. I really do. The one thing that consistently confuses me is that when someone explains what UX is, it always ends up being explained in a very nebulous way where a UX designer seems to have authority over virtually everything in a company, and responsibility over very little. It can occasionally feel as though UX people want to be PMs, UI designers, marketers, developers, and data analysts all at the same time, but of course when pressed, they "aren't supposed to be about UI / PM / dev / etc.". The list is a great example. "Company Culture evangelism" is a UX discipline? Really?

martin-adams 13y ago
No, they want to work with the PMs, UI designers, marketers, developers, and data analysts, enabling them to have the right tools to make better choices.
- untog 13y ago
  But "work with" as a very euphemistic term. Are they instructing the PMs etc., or are they acting on their orders? I know that in an ideal world it's 50/50, but I don't think a position that is involved in every single step of the project has any chance of success unless you happen to also be in charge.
  - derefr 13y ago
    > Are they instructing the PMs etc., or are they acting on their orders? What does a consultant do? A UX designer is basically another name for a consultant who, by training, knows a lot of stuff about the experience your users will have with your product. Like with any consultant, the relationship can be anywhere from asking them direct questions, to getting them to make you mock-ups, to modifying your product, to having them tell you what to do. As with any other consultant, you hire them for their perspective and experience, not for some particular skill. A UX guy is not necessarily good at creating pretty designs--although he'll be able to tell you, using user-testing et al, whether a design is pretty. And so forth, for each thing they do. It's not a collection of skills; it's an approach. (A similar question might be "what does it mean to hire a scientist?" Not skills; approach.)
    - eflowers 13y ago
      Being an internal consultant is often what happens. It's a horizontal role that might look like it's owning a bunch of things, but really it's support various needs in various domains that have a touch on the user/customer "experience." So yeah, I'll be in a PM meeting and then leading the PM meeting. Then I'll go out and into a meeting where we're analyzing analytics on the website, then to a meeting with devs on how we're implementing the interface literally, and getting me set up so I can run builds, edit the html/css, write all the front end views while devs create the models. And then the CEO pulls me aside and wants to know what 'I'm doing to help turn this company culture into one that is user-centered and customer driven." So it is like being a consultant on this huge spectrum of "customer/user experience" touch-points, and it's way more than just 1 or 2 people can do. And then all of this is rolled up into the perception that you're there for "look and feel" which probably only takes up 15-20% of your actual job. You've made a really good summary of how I feel often.
  - eflowers 13y ago
    You get it more than most. This is right on target. It goes from 50/50 one day, to 90/10, to 10/90. And yes, often as I have lived and witnessed, UX is set up to fail through that structure, especially when they don't actually "own" anything.
  - martin-adams 13y ago
    They are contributing to their ideas, providing insight to help them make decisions. A project manager will want to know how much time is needed and when to do user research, diary studies, usability sessions, surveys, wireframes, user stories, etc, etc. A UI designer will want to work with the UX professional to understand what the user goals are, the user journey is. The UI designer will then design a UI to satisfy that story. Marketers will communicate with the UX professional to give insight into the market needs, what competitors are doing, who the target customers are, and they work together to produce a coherent marketing message that matches the product. Developers will work with the UX designer to understand the user impact of design decisions, the goals they are achieving, how to format usable error messages that fit a wider consistent experience, making sure that the press of a button doesn't have a 5 minute delay. The UX professional is the user's stakeholder to make sure everyone is building something with them in mind. Without that everything is very siloed. So yes, when I say they work with them, I really do mean it. They don't instruct, they don't follow, they simply collaborate.
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Often the PM is doing design because the designers don't exist. When you are lucky to have designers, the PMs focus more on project requirements and project management and the designers focus on definition, but they obviously have to work together. In heavy design oriented orgs, you even have UX PMs who are responsible for managing design schedules and coordinating between designers and the rest of the project members.
    - eflowers 13y ago
      I have definitely been a UX PM, even having a former VP of Engineering saying that the 3 "UX people" in the company were the only people providing the "tactical PM role" since PM's were stuck writing PRD's (waterfall product requirement documents). Maybe that's part of my skew as well is that I've always been a primary (diluted, overextended) stakeholder in design, PM, research, and development.
  - snowwrestler 13y ago
    I think the best mental model for UX is a sort of advance QA. QA teams don't instruct or manage the dev and design teams, but their sign-off is an essential part of the product release cycle. QA represents the user in the process--the customer who will be disappointed when they encounter a broken feature. The purpose of the UX discipline is basically to represent the user earlier in the process--to identify aspects of the product that might be frustrating or disappointing even if they are designed and coded properly. The earlier those can be spotted, the less money and time will be wasted.
eflowers 13y ago
I think UX often is a thin, horizontal role across many others. My personal experience has been that yes, there are significant aspects of PM, UI, marketing, development, data analysis, etc that are thrown my way and I am supposed to "help shepherd" them. It's not that I demand those jobs, but they just become part of the horizontal UX ambiguity. In the last 3 places I've worked, part of that horizontal role has been just what you describe. There are other people there too, but as the "UX person", I was expected to be involved in all of that. And sometimes, even expected to own it. "Company Culture evangelism" is a funny one because yes, at 2 companies part of the "UX" job, by request of C-level execs, was to work daily on spreading and educating on a "user centered culture" throughout the company :D

martin-adams 13y ago

No, they want to work with the PMs, UI designers, marketers, developers, and data analysts, enabling them to have the right tools to make better choices.

untog 13y ago
But "work with" as a very euphemistic term. Are they instructing the PMs etc., or are they acting on their orders? I know that in an ideal world it's 50/50, but I don't think a position that is involved in every single step of the project has any chance of success unless you happen to also be in charge.
- derefr 13y ago
  > Are they instructing the PMs etc., or are they acting on their orders? What does a consultant do? A UX designer is basically another name for a consultant who, by training, knows a lot of stuff about the experience your users will have with your product. Like with any consultant, the relationship can be anywhere from asking them direct questions, to getting them to make you mock-ups, to modifying your product, to having them tell you what to do. As with any other consultant, you hire them for their perspective and experience, not for some particular skill. A UX guy is not necessarily good at creating pretty designs--although he'll be able to tell you, using user-testing et al, whether a design is pretty. And so forth, for each thing they do. It's not a collection of skills; it's an approach. (A similar question might be "what does it mean to hire a scientist?" Not skills; approach.)
  - eflowers 13y ago
    Being an internal consultant is often what happens. It's a horizontal role that might look like it's owning a bunch of things, but really it's support various needs in various domains that have a touch on the user/customer "experience." So yeah, I'll be in a PM meeting and then leading the PM meeting. Then I'll go out and into a meeting where we're analyzing analytics on the website, then to a meeting with devs on how we're implementing the interface literally, and getting me set up so I can run builds, edit the html/css, write all the front end views while devs create the models. And then the CEO pulls me aside and wants to know what 'I'm doing to help turn this company culture into one that is user-centered and customer driven." So it is like being a consultant on this huge spectrum of "customer/user experience" touch-points, and it's way more than just 1 or 2 people can do. And then all of this is rolled up into the perception that you're there for "look and feel" which probably only takes up 15-20% of your actual job. You've made a really good summary of how I feel often.
- eflowers 13y ago
  You get it more than most. This is right on target. It goes from 50/50 one day, to 90/10, to 10/90. And yes, often as I have lived and witnessed, UX is set up to fail through that structure, especially when they don't actually "own" anything.
- martin-adams 13y ago
  They are contributing to their ideas, providing insight to help them make decisions. A project manager will want to know how much time is needed and when to do user research, diary studies, usability sessions, surveys, wireframes, user stories, etc, etc. A UI designer will want to work with the UX professional to understand what the user goals are, the user journey is. The UI designer will then design a UI to satisfy that story. Marketers will communicate with the UX professional to give insight into the market needs, what competitors are doing, who the target customers are, and they work together to produce a coherent marketing message that matches the product. Developers will work with the UX designer to understand the user impact of design decisions, the goals they are achieving, how to format usable error messages that fit a wider consistent experience, making sure that the press of a button doesn't have a 5 minute delay. The UX professional is the user's stakeholder to make sure everyone is building something with them in mind. Without that everything is very siloed. So yes, when I say they work with them, I really do mean it. They don't instruct, they don't follow, they simply collaborate.
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Often the PM is doing design because the designers don't exist. When you are lucky to have designers, the PMs focus more on project requirements and project management and the designers focus on definition, but they obviously have to work together. In heavy design oriented orgs, you even have UX PMs who are responsible for managing design schedules and coordinating between designers and the rest of the project members.
  - eflowers 13y ago
    I have definitely been a UX PM, even having a former VP of Engineering saying that the 3 "UX people" in the company were the only people providing the "tactical PM role" since PM's were stuck writing PRD's (waterfall product requirement documents). Maybe that's part of my skew as well is that I've always been a primary (diluted, overextended) stakeholder in design, PM, research, and development.
- snowwrestler 13y ago
  I think the best mental model for UX is a sort of advance QA. QA teams don't instruct or manage the dev and design teams, but their sign-off is an essential part of the product release cycle. QA represents the user in the process--the customer who will be disappointed when they encounter a broken feature. The purpose of the UX discipline is basically to represent the user earlier in the process--to identify aspects of the product that might be frustrating or disappointing even if they are designed and coded properly. The earlier those can be spotted, the less money and time will be wasted.

eflowers 13y ago

I think UX often is a thin, horizontal role across many others. My personal experience has been that yes, there are significant aspects of PM, UI, marketing, development, data analysis, etc that are thrown my way and I am supposed to "help shepherd" them. It's not that I demand those jobs, but they just become part of the horizontal UX ambiguity. In the last 3 places I've worked, part of that horizontal role has been just what you describe. There are other people there too, but as the "UX person", I was expected to be involved in all of that. And sometimes, even expected to own it. "Company Culture evangelism" is a funny one because yes, at 2 companies part of the "UX" job, by request of C-level execs, was to work daily on spreading and educating on a "user centered culture" throughout the company :D