6 ms·

So now that we know that the DEA is not merely a paramilitary force, but also a rogue intelligence agency that is in the business of lying to judges, prosecutor

So now that we know that the DEA is not merely a paramilitary force, but also a rogue intelligence agency that is in the business of lying to judges, prosecutors, and defense attorneys, can we please disband them? As an agency the DEA is one of the most (maybe even the most) destructive forces in this country.

anigbrowl 13y ago
Sounds great, but my bet is that it ain't happening as long as the cult of Reagan persists in the GOP.
- flyt 13y ago
  The cult of Reagan is less powerful than the cult of private companies that exist due to government money funneled through DEA programs.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    Yes, but ALEC-affiliated legislators tend to trot out the Gipper when they're on the stump rather than talking about how many lobbyists they're friends with. Money talks but ultimately it's the votes that count.
  - falk 13y ago
    I wouldn't blame just Republicans for drugs not being legal and the DEA being intact. Democrats get campaign contributions from police unions, private prisons, alcohol companies, pharmaceutical companies, and prison guard unions too. The fact of the matter is that our politicians don't work for us they work for corporate interests. Also, before someone says we should elect politicians, please realize that the problem isn't the politicians. It's the American people. Americans are dumber than a box of rocks. They love their low prices they get at Walmart and don't realize how much we subsidize the company's employees via welfare programs because they refuse to pay them a living wage. The baby boomers (and possibly my generation) will have to die off before cannabis and other drugs are legalized.
    - anigbrowl 13y ago
      I quite agree, but the 'morality police' stance is something I associate with the right (though not exclusively).
      - deleted 13y ago
        [deleted]
    - tolmasky 13y ago
      The problem is not the American people. If a system requires nearly the entire populace to be as active (intellectually and financially) as every individual vested interest just to be successful, then it is a bad system. Its easy to call people dumb as rocks when they aren't rich and need to spend their time working really difficult jobs, and then choose low prices and tv for the leisure they have left as opposed to researching the complex web of interests that define the political actions of this country. The reality is that even the people that are "well informed" have wildly different beliefs about what is going on. The government represents an entity capable of on the one hand restricting just about anything, and on the other hand propping up other things. It is thus a completely natural and logical result that thousands of vested interests will start vying for its favor. Now all of a sudden the entire population needs to go on defense for each of these issues. Its madness and completely unsustainable. You happen to care about and understand drug legalization, but I guarantee you that there are hundreds of other issues you aren't even aware of that are equally bad. Does that make you a bad person or dumb? Of course not.
      - falk 13y ago
        "If a system requires nearly the entire populace to be as active (intellectually and financially) as every individual vested interest just to be successful, then it is a bad system." We can't even get half of the country to make informed decisions. Americans are definitely the problem. They vote every couple of years to elect rich politicians that don't give a fuck about them. And they vote based off of arbitrary reasons. They find out we are being constantly spied on and they just don't care. Just like they didn't care when Japanese Americans were thrown into camps during WW2. Just like they didn't care when we were lied into Vietnam and then again into Iraq to make a few people richer. Americans are complacent.
  - Symmetry 13y ago
    If I were to think of enthusiastic drug warriors who've managed to get their preferred policies implemented I'd probably put Joe Biden at the top of the list and I don't tend to think of him as being a Reaganite, though of course YMMV.
- droopybuns 13y ago
  It's actually the cult of law enforcement that we have to worry about. Also- consider whether or not your mainlining of the 2 team ideological spectrum is a result of efforts to keep you the citizen from really pursuing meaningful change. You're right to blame the s/republicans/democrats.
- msgilligan 13y ago
  Reagan would be ashamed of what has been done and said in his name. I also suspect he would admit that the war on drugs has been a costly failure and express regrets that he escalated it. (And I'd love to see the faces of many members of his cult when he showed up and set then straight.)
  - seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    Reagan was a stubborn guy when he was active in politics, what makes you think he would have mellowed out in old/dead age? Might as well claim George Washington was really anti slavery and regretted owning slaves.
    - msgilligan 13y ago
      Well it's kind of silly to speculate, but I think if he could see all the abuses that have resulted from the drug war he might have some regrets. He certainly changed his mind/policy on other issues, so I'd like to think a woken from the grave (pre-dementia) Reagan would be shocked into such an admission. Given that in 1978 he wrote an editorial opposing the anti-gay Briggs Initiative (California) and arguably hosted the first gay couple to sleep in the White House, I think modern social conservatives would be in for a few surprises from a mellowed out/dead Reagan.
      - hga 13y ago
        Reagan was a divorced California playboy actor! Seriously; can't find the classic picture of him with a surfboard, but as I recall he was the first President to have been divorced, and that was an issue in the 1980 election. When James Watt did his Beach Boys kerfuffle one thing that reversed it was Reagan and Nancy being fans of the band.
        msgilligan 13y ago
        I remember the Beach Boys kerfuffle. It resulted in the best letter to the editor (you know, printed in an actual newspaper) that I ever read. It was one sentence: As a sex-crazed, commie drug-fiend I resent Secretary Watt's implication that I listen to the Beach Boys.
- throwit1979 13y ago
  This is news.ycombinator.com, right? Can someone please explain to me how this comment is not [dead], as it ought to be, within 10 seconds of its posting? I'd also have to question how it's even possible that any thinking human being, aware of even the barest modicum of facts, can continue to maintain that the police state is exclusively the domain of the GOP. Jesus Christ, what has HN become? Edit: Disregard this, I just checked the parent's karma score. Popularity goes a very long way in relegating petty things like posting guidelines and reason into the dustbin of irrelevance.
  - pstuart 13y ago
    Not to disagree with the general sentiment, but if Obama declared that cannabis should be legal the GOP would have a field day with that. Big time.
    - graeme 13y ago
      Several commentators have argued persuasively that the democrats and the GOP act as a ratchet mechanism. The republicans push the envelope with new programs considered extreme. The democrats solidify and systematize these programs. Not literally true in every instance, but it happens often enough that it appears to be a quality of the system. That is to say, Obama WON'T push to legalize cannabis, and it's far more than the cult of Reagan in the GOP that keeps the DEA alive and radical. Here's a blog from which I got the idea: http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2010/05/ratchet-effect-part-infinity.html http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2010/05/ratchet-effect-part-infi... Note: This looks like some obscure blogspot blog. Not so. Who Is Ioz was actively read by all major political bloggers circa 2006-2011. Glenn Greenwald (of recent Edward Snowden fame) commented there a few times. The blog was not much discussed, as it was considered too radical (or too lucid), but Ioz correctly predicted that Obama would entrench Bush's policies, rather than reverse them. I have no idea who Ioz is, or what he's doing now.
      - graeme 13y ago
        Writing this dredged up some memories. I found the posts where Greenwald commented at Ioz's. They were shortly before the election. Five years on, they're an interesting read. Obama's current policies were very predictable, even then. http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2008/06/bottom-line.html http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2008/06/bottom-line.html http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2008/07/from-i-would-use-ring-from-desire-to-do.html http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2008/07/from-i-would-use-ring-fr...
- jrockway 13y ago
  I think it's unfair to blame Reagan for this. Remember, the US was formed when a bunch of people left England because the laws weren't strict enough. Things like the DEA and PRISM is why our country exists!
  - dllthomas 13y ago
    "First settled by Europeans" and "formed" are not the same thing.
tomphoolery 13y ago
What do you mean "now"? If you have ever done any illegal drug in your life you most likely have heard of this happening. Fucking duh, guys. They're not quite "in the business of lying", but they certainly will hold back the truth if it makes them look bad (see: marijuana) and they have been known to bend the rules to get people behind bars. It's happened, and continues to happen as long as most people in this country don't give a shit about the war on drugs as a major atrocity.
- dllthomas 13y ago
  Parallel construction is lying.
- rhizome 13y ago
  They're not quite "in the business of lying", but they certainly will hold back the truth Lying by omission is still lying. I'm not really sure what your, "more cynical than thou," is supposed to accomplish, though.

anigbrowl 13y ago

Sounds great, but my bet is that it ain't happening as long as the cult of Reagan persists in the GOP.

flyt 13y ago
The cult of Reagan is less powerful than the cult of private companies that exist due to government money funneled through DEA programs.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  Yes, but ALEC-affiliated legislators tend to trot out the Gipper when they're on the stump rather than talking about how many lobbyists they're friends with. Money talks but ultimately it's the votes that count.
- falk 13y ago
  I wouldn't blame just Republicans for drugs not being legal and the DEA being intact. Democrats get campaign contributions from police unions, private prisons, alcohol companies, pharmaceutical companies, and prison guard unions too. The fact of the matter is that our politicians don't work for us they work for corporate interests. Also, before someone says we should elect politicians, please realize that the problem isn't the politicians. It's the American people. Americans are dumber than a box of rocks. They love their low prices they get at Walmart and don't realize how much we subsidize the company's employees via welfare programs because they refuse to pay them a living wage. The baby boomers (and possibly my generation) will have to die off before cannabis and other drugs are legalized.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    I quite agree, but the 'morality police' stance is something I associate with the right (though not exclusively).
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
  - tolmasky 13y ago
    The problem is not the American people. If a system requires nearly the entire populace to be as active (intellectually and financially) as every individual vested interest just to be successful, then it is a bad system. Its easy to call people dumb as rocks when they aren't rich and need to spend their time working really difficult jobs, and then choose low prices and tv for the leisure they have left as opposed to researching the complex web of interests that define the political actions of this country. The reality is that even the people that are "well informed" have wildly different beliefs about what is going on. The government represents an entity capable of on the one hand restricting just about anything, and on the other hand propping up other things. It is thus a completely natural and logical result that thousands of vested interests will start vying for its favor. Now all of a sudden the entire population needs to go on defense for each of these issues. Its madness and completely unsustainable. You happen to care about and understand drug legalization, but I guarantee you that there are hundreds of other issues you aren't even aware of that are equally bad. Does that make you a bad person or dumb? Of course not.
    - falk 13y ago
      "If a system requires nearly the entire populace to be as active (intellectually and financially) as every individual vested interest just to be successful, then it is a bad system." We can't even get half of the country to make informed decisions. Americans are definitely the problem. They vote every couple of years to elect rich politicians that don't give a fuck about them. And they vote based off of arbitrary reasons. They find out we are being constantly spied on and they just don't care. Just like they didn't care when Japanese Americans were thrown into camps during WW2. Just like they didn't care when we were lied into Vietnam and then again into Iraq to make a few people richer. Americans are complacent.
- Symmetry 13y ago
  If I were to think of enthusiastic drug warriors who've managed to get their preferred policies implemented I'd probably put Joe Biden at the top of the list and I don't tend to think of him as being a Reaganite, though of course YMMV.
droopybuns 13y ago
It's actually the cult of law enforcement that we have to worry about. Also- consider whether or not your mainlining of the 2 team ideological spectrum is a result of efforts to keep you the citizen from really pursuing meaningful change. You're right to blame the s/republicans/democrats.
msgilligan 13y ago
Reagan would be ashamed of what has been done and said in his name. I also suspect he would admit that the war on drugs has been a costly failure and express regrets that he escalated it. (And I'd love to see the faces of many members of his cult when he showed up and set then straight.)
- seanmcdirmid 13y ago
  Reagan was a stubborn guy when he was active in politics, what makes you think he would have mellowed out in old/dead age? Might as well claim George Washington was really anti slavery and regretted owning slaves.
  - msgilligan 13y ago
    Well it's kind of silly to speculate, but I think if he could see all the abuses that have resulted from the drug war he might have some regrets. He certainly changed his mind/policy on other issues, so I'd like to think a woken from the grave (pre-dementia) Reagan would be shocked into such an admission. Given that in 1978 he wrote an editorial opposing the anti-gay Briggs Initiative (California) and arguably hosted the first gay couple to sleep in the White House, I think modern social conservatives would be in for a few surprises from a mellowed out/dead Reagan.
    - hga 13y ago
      Reagan was a divorced California playboy actor! Seriously; can't find the classic picture of him with a surfboard, but as I recall he was the first President to have been divorced, and that was an issue in the 1980 election. When James Watt did his Beach Boys kerfuffle one thing that reversed it was Reagan and Nancy being fans of the band.
      - msgilligan 13y ago
        I remember the Beach Boys kerfuffle. It resulted in the best letter to the editor (you know, printed in an actual newspaper) that I ever read. It was one sentence: As a sex-crazed, commie drug-fiend I resent Secretary Watt's implication that I listen to the Beach Boys.
throwit1979 13y ago
This is news.ycombinator.com, right? Can someone please explain to me how this comment is not [dead], as it ought to be, within 10 seconds of its posting? I'd also have to question how it's even possible that any thinking human being, aware of even the barest modicum of facts, can continue to maintain that the police state is exclusively the domain of the GOP. Jesus Christ, what has HN become? Edit: Disregard this, I just checked the parent's karma score. Popularity goes a very long way in relegating petty things like posting guidelines and reason into the dustbin of irrelevance.
- pstuart 13y ago
  Not to disagree with the general sentiment, but if Obama declared that cannabis should be legal the GOP would have a field day with that. Big time.
  - graeme 13y ago
    Several commentators have argued persuasively that the democrats and the GOP act as a ratchet mechanism. The republicans push the envelope with new programs considered extreme. The democrats solidify and systematize these programs. Not literally true in every instance, but it happens often enough that it appears to be a quality of the system. That is to say, Obama WON'T push to legalize cannabis, and it's far more than the cult of Reagan in the GOP that keeps the DEA alive and radical. Here's a blog from which I got the idea: http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2010/05/ratchet-effect-part-infinity.html http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2010/05/ratchet-effect-part-infi... Note: This looks like some obscure blogspot blog. Not so. Who Is Ioz was actively read by all major political bloggers circa 2006-2011. Glenn Greenwald (of recent Edward Snowden fame) commented there a few times. The blog was not much discussed, as it was considered too radical (or too lucid), but Ioz correctly predicted that Obama would entrench Bush's policies, rather than reverse them. I have no idea who Ioz is, or what he's doing now.
    - graeme 13y ago
      Writing this dredged up some memories. I found the posts where Greenwald commented at Ioz's. They were shortly before the election. Five years on, they're an interesting read. Obama's current policies were very predictable, even then. http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2008/06/bottom-line.html http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2008/06/bottom-line.html http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2008/07/from-i-would-use-ring-from-desire-to-do.html http://whoisioz.blogspot.ca/2008/07/from-i-would-use-ring-fr...
jrockway 13y ago
I think it's unfair to blame Reagan for this. Remember, the US was formed when a bunch of people left England because the laws weren't strict enough. Things like the DEA and PRISM is why our country exists!
- dllthomas 13y ago
  "First settled by Europeans" and "formed" are not the same thing.

tomphoolery 13y ago

What do you mean "now"? If you have ever done any illegal drug in your life you most likely have heard of this happening. Fucking duh, guys. They're not quite "in the business of lying", but they certainly will hold back the truth if it makes them look bad (see: marijuana) and they have been known to bend the rules to get people behind bars. It's happened, and continues to happen as long as most people in this country don't give a shit about the war on drugs as a major atrocity.

dllthomas 13y ago
Parallel construction is lying.
rhizome 13y ago
They're not quite "in the business of lying", but they certainly will hold back the truth Lying by omission is still lying. I'm not really sure what your, "more cynical than thou," is supposed to accomplish, though.