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> the cuts on your key are supposed to be a secret I don't think the average mechanical key user is aware of this fact. I wonder if someone makes keys that hi

> the cuts on your key are supposed to be a secret I don't think the average mechanical key user is aware of this fact. I wonder if someone makes keys that hide their cuts during normal use. For example, a cylindrical key with the cuts on the inside of the cylinder.

emhart 13y ago
You are right, and that's why I think it's a shame that the opportunity wasn't taken to alert people to that idea. I spend a little time collecting high res photographs people post online of their keys (happens all the time) and do enough digging to associate those keys with an address. I'm a good guy, though and just try to raise awareness. And yes, they do. There have been a handful of concepts to do exactly that. Check out the Van Lock[0] for one, which is almost exactly what you are describing. [0]http://www.safersystems.co.uk/Images/Vanlock.gif http://www.safersystems.co.uk/Images/Vanlock.gif
HarryHirsch 13y ago
I don't think the average mechanical key user is aware of this fact. What?? This ties in with the recent reports on insecure electronic keyfobs for cars. In Germany it used to be that your key number used to be printed on your car title, and your friendly car dealer would gladly cut you a replacement key if you had lost yours, but he wouldn't do it unless you procured ID and the title.
- rcthompson 13y ago
  The average mechanical key user (i.e. the average non-homeless person) certainly knows that someone can duplicate a key given access to the key. But the average key user doesn't know that a mere picture, much less a picture from hundreds of feet away, is sufficient. When was the last time you saw someone hide a key from view while using it? I've never seen anyone do this. I've never done it myself.
  - chii 13y ago
    and they would be right - the threat model of the average home isnt one under which having a picture of their keys taken is realistically possible. if a burgler (the most common threat) wants to get in, they don't need a key. However, when the threat model is one where a more funded organization is attempting to break in, then you need a better system.
btbuildem 13y ago
You could make a telescoping sheath for keys that would hide the cuts when not used, and retract when the key is pushed into the keyhole.
- emhart 13y ago
  They exist! One maker (who's product didn't last on the market for very long) back in the 70s or 80s, actually had this sort of obfuscation as a feature on the key. Basically, the key was a series of connected sections with small differences between them, they would slide into the lock from the middle of a spring-loaded sheath and then follow an odd path inside the lock, so neither observation of the keyway, the sheathed key, or even likely the unsheathed key, would give you a clear picture of how to reconstruct the interaction between the sections of the key, or where in the lock they interacted. Sadly I have no patent reference for the lock, only a description in an old newspaper that ran a story on the creator.
  - gknoy 13y ago
    I wonder how well a silicone or other flexible key-sleeve would work with existing keys. It might feel somewhat silly, but at least you could color code your keys as well as protect them.
  - katbyte 13y ago
    Do you have the name of the creator handy?

emhart 13y ago

You are right, and that's why I think it's a shame that the opportunity wasn't taken to alert people to that idea. I spend a little time collecting high res photographs people post online of their keys (happens all the time) and do enough digging to associate those keys with an address. I'm a good guy, though and just try to raise awareness. And yes, they do. There have been a handful of concepts to do exactly that. Check out the Van Lock[0] for one, which is almost exactly what you are describing. [0]http://www.safersystems.co.uk/Images/Vanlock.gif http://www.safersystems.co.uk/Images/Vanlock.gif

HarryHirsch 13y ago

I don't think the average mechanical key user is aware of this fact. What?? This ties in with the recent reports on insecure electronic keyfobs for cars. In Germany it used to be that your key number used to be printed on your car title, and your friendly car dealer would gladly cut you a replacement key if you had lost yours, but he wouldn't do it unless you procured ID and the title.

rcthompson 13y ago
The average mechanical key user (i.e. the average non-homeless person) certainly knows that someone can duplicate a key given access to the key. But the average key user doesn't know that a mere picture, much less a picture from hundreds of feet away, is sufficient. When was the last time you saw someone hide a key from view while using it? I've never seen anyone do this. I've never done it myself.
- chii 13y ago
  and they would be right - the threat model of the average home isnt one under which having a picture of their keys taken is realistically possible. if a burgler (the most common threat) wants to get in, they don't need a key. However, when the threat model is one where a more funded organization is attempting to break in, then you need a better system.

btbuildem 13y ago

You could make a telescoping sheath for keys that would hide the cuts when not used, and retract when the key is pushed into the keyhole.

emhart 13y ago
They exist! One maker (who's product didn't last on the market for very long) back in the 70s or 80s, actually had this sort of obfuscation as a feature on the key. Basically, the key was a series of connected sections with small differences between them, they would slide into the lock from the middle of a spring-loaded sheath and then follow an odd path inside the lock, so neither observation of the keyway, the sheathed key, or even likely the unsheathed key, would give you a clear picture of how to reconstruct the interaction between the sections of the key, or where in the lock they interacted. Sadly I have no patent reference for the lock, only a description in an old newspaper that ran a story on the creator.
- gknoy 13y ago
  I wonder how well a silicone or other flexible key-sleeve would work with existing keys. It might feel somewhat silly, but at least you could color code your keys as well as protect them.
- katbyte 13y ago
  Do you have the name of the creator handy?