6 ms·

About a week ago, the author posted a report to his blog http://www.abclinuxu.cz/blog/doli/2013/7/darling-progress-report-cervenec-2013 http://www.abclinuxu.cz/

by lubomir 13y ago

About a week ago, the author posted a report to his blog http://www.abclinuxu.cz/blog/doli/2013/7/darling-progress-report-cervenec-2013 http://www.abclinuxu.cz/blog/doli/2013/7/darling-progress-re.... Summary: * It can run basic console programs like Midnight Commander, vim or bash, so compatibility of system API is rather good. * Dynamic loader is being refactored, because it can not unload dynamic libraries now. In the future there will be API that would allow loading OS X library into native code. * There is a FUSE module for read-only access to .dmg files, so that it is not necessary to unpack them. GNUstep is a problem; it does not seem to be very alive. It does have three backends, but none of them works reliably. The long term (slightly crazy) plan is to implement the basic Cocoa classes over Qt. Right now the target application that should work is Angry Birds.

jaxb 13y ago
Reminds me of Win32 emulation layer for OS/2 which had Quake 2 as target application :)
- lubomir 13y ago
  The given reason for that is that it is a popular game that has no native version (so no one will ask why he is porting Midnight Commander) and it does not use much OS X API. It uses OpenGL, OpenAL, IOKit (for finding input devices), AppKit (creating window), CGL (for configuring OpenGL) and CoreVideo (for running main loop).
- edmccard 13y ago
  That was Odin32, right? I remember looking forward to that, and hoping that it would be better than the win32s extensions for 3.11 (plus the .dll whack-a-mole that entailed), but in the end I just switched from OS/2 to XP.
peatmoss 13y ago
I can't figure out why GNUstep has languished so. Given how many ObjC developers there are out there, and given how nice it would be to target for multi-platform apps, it feels like the sort of thing that should have gotten good pretty quickly in a world of resurgent Apple.
- jballanc 13y ago
  ...and this is the moment that you realize there aren't so many Obj-C developers out there as much as there are that many iOS developers out there, all being forced to use one particular language. Edit: For the record, I am a fan of Obj-C, not an iOS developer, and would love to see more movement on GNUStep. I just need the time...
  - mikeash 13y ago
    Really, I think there are plenty of ObjC fans, but ObjC developers can be divided into two groups: 1. Those who use it unwillingly, and happily use some other environment when not targeting Apple platforms. 2. Those who are big Apple fans and don't see the point of targeting non-Apple platforms in the first place. I'm sure there are exceptions, but not enough for GNUStep to get traction.
    - zw 13y ago
      To me, GNUStep has always been a cool project but cripplingly behind. It's always moved at a glacial pace, even in comparison to Apple's glacial framework development pace. I think your excellent blog posts over time are evidence enough for this - it's always been behind with like Quartz and stuff, and nowadays it has just been slipping further and further. I think its stagnation also got wrapped up in that whole "freedom" wankery after iOS came out.
    - drivingmenuts 13y ago
      IIR, GNUStep has always been a stepchild on Linux, with KDE and Gnome sucking up all the air in the room. The developers are great fans and all, but they are few and far between. By the time iOS rolled around, GNUStep and Obj-C on Linux seemed completely dead and, with no pressing need to write software for a handheld on one platform and a desktop on another, it's stayed that way. GNUStep missed the opportunity to cash in on more people working in Obj-C.
    - cstejerean 13y ago
      I'd love to target non-Apple platforms, but if I don't have the time to work on improving GNUStep. I suspect there are others in this camp. Until GNUStep catches up I'm fine with targeting OS X only if I need to write a native GUI application.
mattrepl 13y ago
Using Qt as a Cocoa stand-in sounds complicated. Since Darling already uses its own loader and syscall hooking to provide compatibility for the program, why not do the same for a framework like Cocoa?
- zw 13y ago
  Same type of deal as in Wine, copyright-type stuff.
  - nikcub 13y ago
    there is hope that the decision in Oracle vs Google[0] on API's not being copyrightable might change that [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_v._Google http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_v._Google
    - mattrepl 13y ago
      I think zw meant that the Cocoa binaries can't be distributed with Darling. That's not a major problem for users that have a copy of OS X. Darling can allow users to supply their own. The potential issue you refer to would also prevent implementing the Cocoa API with Qt.

by lubomir 13y ago

jaxb 13y ago

Reminds me of Win32 emulation layer for OS/2 which had Quake 2 as target application :)

lubomir 13y ago
The given reason for that is that it is a popular game that has no native version (so no one will ask why he is porting Midnight Commander) and it does not use much OS X API. It uses OpenGL, OpenAL, IOKit (for finding input devices), AppKit (creating window), CGL (for configuring OpenGL) and CoreVideo (for running main loop).
edmccard 13y ago
That was Odin32, right? I remember looking forward to that, and hoping that it would be better than the win32s extensions for 3.11 (plus the .dll whack-a-mole that entailed), but in the end I just switched from OS/2 to XP.

peatmoss 13y ago

I can't figure out why GNUstep has languished so. Given how many ObjC developers there are out there, and given how nice it would be to target for multi-platform apps, it feels like the sort of thing that should have gotten good pretty quickly in a world of resurgent Apple.

jballanc 13y ago
...and this is the moment that you realize there aren't so many Obj-C developers out there as much as there are that many iOS developers out there, all being forced to use one particular language. Edit: For the record, I am a fan of Obj-C, not an iOS developer, and would love to see more movement on GNUStep. I just need the time...
- mikeash 13y ago
  Really, I think there are plenty of ObjC fans, but ObjC developers can be divided into two groups: 1. Those who use it unwillingly, and happily use some other environment when not targeting Apple platforms. 2. Those who are big Apple fans and don't see the point of targeting non-Apple platforms in the first place. I'm sure there are exceptions, but not enough for GNUStep to get traction.
  - zw 13y ago
    To me, GNUStep has always been a cool project but cripplingly behind. It's always moved at a glacial pace, even in comparison to Apple's glacial framework development pace. I think your excellent blog posts over time are evidence enough for this - it's always been behind with like Quartz and stuff, and nowadays it has just been slipping further and further. I think its stagnation also got wrapped up in that whole "freedom" wankery after iOS came out.
  - drivingmenuts 13y ago
    IIR, GNUStep has always been a stepchild on Linux, with KDE and Gnome sucking up all the air in the room. The developers are great fans and all, but they are few and far between. By the time iOS rolled around, GNUStep and Obj-C on Linux seemed completely dead and, with no pressing need to write software for a handheld on one platform and a desktop on another, it's stayed that way. GNUStep missed the opportunity to cash in on more people working in Obj-C.
  - cstejerean 13y ago
    I'd love to target non-Apple platforms, but if I don't have the time to work on improving GNUStep. I suspect there are others in this camp. Until GNUStep catches up I'm fine with targeting OS X only if I need to write a native GUI application.

mattrepl 13y ago

Using Qt as a Cocoa stand-in sounds complicated. Since Darling already uses its own loader and syscall hooking to provide compatibility for the program, why not do the same for a framework like Cocoa?

zw 13y ago
Same type of deal as in Wine, copyright-type stuff.
- nikcub 13y ago
  there is hope that the decision in Oracle vs Google[0] on API's not being copyrightable might change that [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_v._Google http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_v._Google
  - mattrepl 13y ago
    I think zw meant that the Cocoa binaries can't be distributed with Darling. That's not a major problem for users that have a copy of OS X. Darling can allow users to supply their own. The potential issue you refer to would also prevent implementing the Cocoa API with Qt.