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I applaud these goals however if we were to ever consider moving from Google Apps (which we would) it would only be for an open source project given that privac

by marquis 13y ago

I applaud these goals however if we were to ever consider moving from Google Apps (which we would) it would only be for an open source project given that privacy is becoming the more critical issue as the years go on. It would be great to see a subscription based email service such as this where the source is fully available for scrutinizing and patching. Edit: Great, so the source is already available.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
marcosdumay 13y ago
This is an open source project. Also, if privacy is important for you, you shouldn't look into subscription services, whatever software package they use.
- marquis 13y ago
  That's fantastic. I didn't see any information about this on your page so you might want to make this clearer (I assure you I read it first before commenting, then went back and saw the Fork on Github ribbon, the only indication). By subscription I mean that I am happy to support an open source project with regular funding. Initial funds from Indiegogo are not sufficient to maintain a long-term service and we'd be hesitant to move our most important business infrastructure to something that may not be updated regularly as the security environment changes. If you were to look into making this a business with recurring revenue I believe you would find there is a lot of support.
  - andrewcooke 13y ago
    there's a big red line across the top right corner pointing to github (and licencing info there). there's another link to github near the end. apologies for a previous post that used strong language, but you really can't have looked very hard. (you know, i just read chapter 2 of 'how to win friends and influence people' which tells me that criticising people never works because they simply work harder to justify themselves. it's the most depressing thing i have read in a long time, but it seems to be horribly, universally true. and it's so frustrating when the world seems to be populated by incompetent idiots. how do you convince someone 'nicely' that they complained about something without even reading it?)
    - marquis 13y ago
      I scanned the body copy for the words open source, GPL etc and missed the github ribbon at the top. It just may be beneficial to put this in text somewhere so it's more obvious, and not everyone searching for a private email server may be aware of the Fork on Github means. There's another aspect to criticism: I posted because I care about this topic, and care deeply. If I didn't care I wouldn't upvote or post.
    - tspike 13y ago
      Regarding your addendum, if you really view the people as incompetent idiots, I'd argue you're not all that interested in winning them as friends. In any case, just give the person the information they need without attacking them -- they won't feel defensive and they'll probably feel pretty stupid on their own. For bonus points, try to empathize and think about something stupid you once did -- surely you've done some idiotic things in the past.
      - gonzo 13y ago
        > surely you've done some idiotic thigs in the past. No, but give me 5 minutes, and I'm sure I will.
      - andrewcooke 13y ago
        i don't deny doing stupid things. look, here's an example from my recent posting history - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6121287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6121287 and the follow-up http://www.acooke.org/cute/HyperloopW0.html#Mon29Jul20132135420400 http://www.acooke.org/cute/HyperloopW0.html#Mon29Jul20132135... what depresses me is that people don't admit it, learn, and move on. instead we get "well, i am showing how important it is to make this information more explicit because everyone else is as dumb as i am". no. we are not. ps and no, i am not interested in winning you as a friend. what makes you think i would be? i am interested in influencing people. i want people to be smarter. it's frustrating that this can't be done by simply pointing out the correct answer. instead, people need to be molly-coddled into changing their minds without noticing. by pretending to be friends. an enormous amount of effort is needed to effect the smallest change. i don't deny it. i think i need to read and learn from that depressing little book. but god i wish people would think a little more.
dalai 13y ago
Unless I am missing something, this is self-hosted and open source (AGPL).
beachstartup 13y ago
> subscription based email service such as this where the source is fully available for scrutinizing and patching this doesn't make any sense to me. how exactly do you know what code a remote server is running as a subscriber (not an admin)? you obviously can't just believe what what it prints when you click "see the source!" in a web page. they could crypto sign the code you download, but that doesn't mean they gave you what they're actually running.
- marquis 13y ago
  I've been very unclear about what I mean by subscription: set up a recurring payment monthly or whatever, and I'll let them keep taking money from my account while the source is maintained.
Zigurd 13y ago
You shouldn't trust a cloud store in any case, and you shouldn't need to. Client software, on the other hand, needs to be open.

by marquis 13y ago

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

marcosdumay 13y ago

This is an open source project. Also, if privacy is important for you, you shouldn't look into subscription services, whatever software package they use.

marquis 13y ago
That's fantastic. I didn't see any information about this on your page so you might want to make this clearer (I assure you I read it first before commenting, then went back and saw the Fork on Github ribbon, the only indication). By subscription I mean that I am happy to support an open source project with regular funding. Initial funds from Indiegogo are not sufficient to maintain a long-term service and we'd be hesitant to move our most important business infrastructure to something that may not be updated regularly as the security environment changes. If you were to look into making this a business with recurring revenue I believe you would find there is a lot of support.
- andrewcooke 13y ago
  there's a big red line across the top right corner pointing to github (and licencing info there). there's another link to github near the end. apologies for a previous post that used strong language, but you really can't have looked very hard. (you know, i just read chapter 2 of 'how to win friends and influence people' which tells me that criticising people never works because they simply work harder to justify themselves. it's the most depressing thing i have read in a long time, but it seems to be horribly, universally true. and it's so frustrating when the world seems to be populated by incompetent idiots. how do you convince someone 'nicely' that they complained about something without even reading it?)
  - marquis 13y ago
    I scanned the body copy for the words open source, GPL etc and missed the github ribbon at the top. It just may be beneficial to put this in text somewhere so it's more obvious, and not everyone searching for a private email server may be aware of the Fork on Github means. There's another aspect to criticism: I posted because I care about this topic, and care deeply. If I didn't care I wouldn't upvote or post.
  - tspike 13y ago
    Regarding your addendum, if you really view the people as incompetent idiots, I'd argue you're not all that interested in winning them as friends. In any case, just give the person the information they need without attacking them -- they won't feel defensive and they'll probably feel pretty stupid on their own. For bonus points, try to empathize and think about something stupid you once did -- surely you've done some idiotic things in the past.
    - gonzo 13y ago
      > surely you've done some idiotic thigs in the past. No, but give me 5 minutes, and I'm sure I will.
    - andrewcooke 13y ago
      i don't deny doing stupid things. look, here's an example from my recent posting history - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6121287 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6121287 and the follow-up http://www.acooke.org/cute/HyperloopW0.html#Mon29Jul20132135420400 http://www.acooke.org/cute/HyperloopW0.html#Mon29Jul20132135... what depresses me is that people don't admit it, learn, and move on. instead we get "well, i am showing how important it is to make this information more explicit because everyone else is as dumb as i am". no. we are not. ps and no, i am not interested in winning you as a friend. what makes you think i would be? i am interested in influencing people. i want people to be smarter. it's frustrating that this can't be done by simply pointing out the correct answer. instead, people need to be molly-coddled into changing their minds without noticing. by pretending to be friends. an enormous amount of effort is needed to effect the smallest change. i don't deny it. i think i need to read and learn from that depressing little book. but god i wish people would think a little more.

dalai 13y ago

Unless I am missing something, this is self-hosted and open source (AGPL).

beachstartup 13y ago

> subscription based email service such as this where the source is fully available for scrutinizing and patching this doesn't make any sense to me. how exactly do you know what code a remote server is running as a subscriber (not an admin)? you obviously can't just believe what what it prints when you click "see the source!" in a web page. they could crypto sign the code you download, but that doesn't mean they gave you what they're actually running.

marquis 13y ago
I've been very unclear about what I mean by subscription: set up a recurring payment monthly or whatever, and I'll let them keep taking money from my account while the source is maintained.

Zigurd 13y ago

You shouldn't trust a cloud store in any case, and you shouldn't need to. Client software, on the other hand, needs to be open.