4 ms·

Reposting this from a previous thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5897654 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5897654)... I remember during the Bost

by espeed 13y ago

Reposting this from a previous thread (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5897654 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5897654)... I remember during the Boston bombing investigation, Tim Clemente, a former FBI counter-terrorism agent, told Erin Burnett on CNN that they could go back and get access to the content of the calls between the deceased bomber and his wife, Katherine Russell. After some Googling, I found a partial transcript of the CNN interview... "Almost immediately Erin Burnett, the host of CNN's Outfront, wanted to know how the government knew. Aren't phone calls supposed to be private? She interviewed Tim Clemente, a former FBI counter-terrorism agent on May 1, asking:" Is there any way … they [the federal investigators] can try to get the phone companies to give that up … It’s not a voice mail. It's just a conversation. There’s no way they can actually find out what [was said on the call], right, unless she tells them? Clemente: There is a way. We certainly have ways in national security investigations to find out exactly what was said in that conversation. It's not necessarily something that the FBI is going to want to present in court, but it may help lead the investigation … we certainly can find that out. Burnett: So they can actually get that? … that is incredible. Clemente: Welcome to America. All of that stuff is being captured as we speak, whether we know it or like it, or not. Source: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15340-boston-bombing-investigation-reveals-government-surveillance-of-phone-calls http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15340-boston... CNN Interview Clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPHZrVPt4-U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPHZrVPt4-U) CNN Follow-Up Interview (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt9kRLrmrjc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt9kRLrmrjc) When I initially saw this on CNN, my first thought was, do they also have access to all photos and videos that are taken and transmitted online? And if so, couldn't they stitch together a multi-angle montage from all the photos and videos taken at the scene of the Boston bombing (like http://photosynth.net http://photosynth.net), rather than asking everyone to manually scour through their personal footage?

northwest 13y ago
And ultimately: Did they want these events to happen? Fear is the oldest and cheapest manipulation strategy. Religions such as the Catholic Church have successfully used it for thousands of years: "It's going to be hell, if you don't do as we say."
arh68 13y ago
Perhaps the real leaker here is Tim Clemente, and not Ed Snowden? How many adversaries adapted their communications to avoid the sources and methods Clemente revealed? .. dozens?
espeed 13y ago
Here's a question I've been pondering: Did the NSA want PRISM to leak? Having everyone in the world know that someone is watching will have significant sociological effects. It is akin to the idea that "God is watching". Thousands of years ago the fear of God and promise of reward was the carrot and stick that resulted in people working together for the greater good rather than pursuing self interest. It was the invisible hand. Those that united and cooperated survived and evolved, and those that refused to unite died off. Jonathan Haidt has been talking (http://www.ted.com/speakers/jonathan_haidt.html http://www.ted.com/speakers/jonathan_haidt.html) and writing (http://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Haidt/e/B001H6GAXW http://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Haidt/e/B001H6GAXW) about how this was key to and accelerated civilization's evolution -- "it put everyone in the same boat." This same phenomenon happens at the cellular level -- bacteria group to form mitochondria, and mitochondria to form cells, and so on, each time forming a superorganism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organization). E pluribus unum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_pluribus_unum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_pluribus_unum) -- "out of many, one." Ants, wasps, and bees are the canonical example of this, and the beehive is often used to symbolize this concept (https://www.google.com/search?q=beehive+symbolism&newwindow=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X https://www.google.com/search?q=beehive+symbolism&newwindow=...). The PRISM name even reflects the symbology -- a honeycomb is made up of prisms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeycomb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeycomb, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagonal_prismatic_honeycomb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagonal_prismatic_honeycomb). For the last few hundred years, market forces have been the invible hand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand), and the corporation emerged as the superorganism. But overtime entropy increases and order erodes. Maybe PRISM is an attempt to reestablish order. The NSA may see other benefits from PRISM leaking. For example, mining the world's communication data may or may not be practical today, but observing a system changes a system. How will people's behavior change now that they know they're being watched? It would be easier to detect deltas than to mine the entire system. Turn on the lights. Roaches scatter. Targets reveal.
- logn 13y ago
  I've also wondered if perhaps Snowden is still on CIA payroll. Maybe the NSA didn't want this leaked but CIA did.
tvtime15 13y ago
I want to see and hear more from Clemente

by espeed 13y ago

northwest 13y ago

And ultimately: Did they want these events to happen? Fear is the oldest and cheapest manipulation strategy. Religions such as the Catholic Church have successfully used it for thousands of years: "It's going to be hell, if you don't do as we say."

arh68 13y ago

Perhaps the real leaker here is Tim Clemente, and not Ed Snowden? How many adversaries adapted their communications to avoid the sources and methods Clemente revealed? .. dozens?

espeed 13y ago

Here's a question I've been pondering: Did the NSA want PRISM to leak? Having everyone in the world know that someone is watching will have significant sociological effects. It is akin to the idea that "God is watching". Thousands of years ago the fear of God and promise of reward was the carrot and stick that resulted in people working together for the greater good rather than pursuing self interest. It was the invisible hand. Those that united and cooperated survived and evolved, and those that refused to unite died off. Jonathan Haidt has been talking (http://www.ted.com/speakers/jonathan_haidt.html http://www.ted.com/speakers/jonathan_haidt.html) and writing (http://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Haidt/e/B001H6GAXW http://www.amazon.com/Jonathan-Haidt/e/B001H6GAXW) about how this was key to and accelerated civilization's evolution -- "it put everyone in the same boat." This same phenomenon happens at the cellular level -- bacteria group to form mitochondria, and mitochondria to form cells, and so on, each time forming a superorganism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organization). E pluribus unum (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_pluribus_unum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_pluribus_unum) -- "out of many, one." Ants, wasps, and bees are the canonical example of this, and the beehive is often used to symbolize this concept (https://www.google.com/search?q=beehive+symbolism&newwindow=1&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X https://www.google.com/search?q=beehive+symbolism&newwindow=...). The PRISM name even reflects the symbology -- a honeycomb is made up of prisms (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeycomb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeycomb, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagonal_prismatic_honeycomb http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexagonal_prismatic_honeycomb). For the last few hundred years, market forces have been the invible hand (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_hand), and the corporation emerged as the superorganism. But overtime entropy increases and order erodes. Maybe PRISM is an attempt to reestablish order. The NSA may see other benefits from PRISM leaking. For example, mining the world's communication data may or may not be practical today, but observing a system changes a system. How will people's behavior change now that they know they're being watched? It would be easier to detect deltas than to mine the entire system. Turn on the lights. Roaches scatter. Targets reveal.

logn 13y ago
I've also wondered if perhaps Snowden is still on CIA payroll. Maybe the NSA didn't want this leaked but CIA did.

tvtime15 13y ago

I want to see and hear more from Clemente