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NSA pays £100m in secret funding for GCHQ
- northwest 13y agoMoney gets things done. It's no news that this basically is how DC operates. But it is extremely worrisome to see this culture of corruption swapping over to Europe.
- agilord 13y agoWhy do you think this is something new in Europe (or at any place on Earth)?
- northwest 13y agoThat's not what I think. Corruption is a problem every human being is prone to. I'm talking about the scale of corruption. In this regard, DC is the sickest known example in the western world, I'd say. And now this kind of scale seems about to be extended further.
- agilord 13y agoYou haven't really visited Eastern-Europe or any post-Soviet country, have you? :) Corruption was always high-scale, but usually with low visibility or even lower accountability (as long as you bribe the watchers too). I think the major change is the visibility of these actions, and the expectations around them: people now hope (and not just dream) for better.
- emhart 13y agoMore damning than the headline here is that GCHQ apparently explicitly stated that a major selling point for the partnership is the UK's lax legal regime, which allows them to be "Less constrained by NSA's concerns about compliance."
- jivatmanx 13y agoIt's been reported elsewhere that the NSA may uses GCHQ to spy on Americans, as a deliberate run around the fourth amendment. I guess, funding GCHQ makes that worse, as well.
- swombat 13y agoOf course, it's perfectly fine to circumvent a foundational privacy law of your country by paying a foreign spy agency to do it on your behalf. What could possibly be ethically dubious about that?
- lutze 13y agoLook at it from the other way too. A foreign agency is secretly funnelling money into an institution that's supposed to be looking after my (as a UK citizen) interests. I think it's well past time this incestuous charade was exposed.
- ihsw 13y agoThese allegations have been widely reported since the start of the Snowden leaks two months ago and both General Alexander and DNI Clapper have both claimed that they don't "run around" the Fourth Amendment in this fashion. It's interesting to see the USG contradictions and hypocrisy coming to light in this fashion, especially since their lies are increasingly egregious and continuous. There is an image[1] of their operations that is especially interesting, and one can interpret it in multiple ways. For example the colors likely represent intelligence reciprocity, but it could also be construed to identify allies and enemies. Since America is yellow then it could represent weak intelligence gathering effectiveness, and it stands to reason that allies likely spy on Americans for us. I wonder how much legal liability that opens up for them? Perhaps they're leery of spying on Americans. [1] http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Boundless-heatmap-large-001.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Boundless...
- VladRussian2 13y agobasically NSA outsources "good government jobs" because of UK lax legal regime. Just like private companies shipping jobs to China :)
- northwest 13y agoThe leaked papers reveal the UK's biggest fear is that "US perceptions of the … partnership diminish, leading to loss of access, and/or reduction in investment … to the UK". Talk about being bent over. Maybe it's time to cut losses now and discuss UK's expulsion from the EU (unless of course the other EU members are able to exert heavy pressure upon the UK, which I honestly doubt).
- teamgb 13y agoThe linked article only provides the highlights. A more in-depth article is here: http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/aug/01/gchq-spy-agency-nsa-edward-snowden#part-one http://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/aug/01/gch... As well as discussing the funding and various projects in more detail, it also sheds some light on what life is like for the rank-and-file. It is a world of decoding and cake sales, programming and pub quizzes. Nobody at Cheltenham is particularly well paid, compared to the private sector at least – a junior analyst might earn £25,000. "We can offer a fantastic mission but we can’t compete with [private sector] salaries," one briefing note lamented. There are protocols on the clearing of desks at the end of the day, with particularly sensitive documents being locked in special cupboards, the keys to which are then stored in other reinforced –lockers which can only be opened by following a set of complex instructions.
- willyt 13y agoSweet, so just hang around pubs in Cheltenham till you find the spook pub, then pal up with them, find out who would most likely take a bribe (I don't know, maybe one who plays the puggies[0] a lot would be a good place to start) offer a big wad of cash and boom! you can find out about anything or anyone... Shit, that's probably how the tabloids know who to send PI's after, there must be stuff leaking out of that place :-( Edit: [0] Slot machines for gambling.
- Amadou 13y ago> There are protocols on the clearing of desks at the end of the day, with particularly sensitive documents being locked in special cupboards FWIW, this sort of thing is standard in every classified facility in the US. It would be messed up if they didn't do that, it is just basic opsec.
- ToastyMallows 13y agoWhat is with The Guardian and their NSFW article pictures on the sidebar?
- colin_jack 13y agoYeah that's started to irritate me too.
- jnbiche 13y agoAre you complaining about the breastfeeding picture? In which country are you that this is not safe for your place of employment?
- tesmar2 13y agoA ton of places, I'm sure, would consider pictures of half or near naked women not appropriate for the workplace.
- ToastyMallows 13y agoI usually consider any nudity in a picture NSFW. Not sure why this is strange. Living in the US. Downvoters: Rebutal?
- kmfrk 13y agoBreastfeeding is unfortunately still a very contentious issue for a lot of people. Facebook in particular are very embattled by people who - rightly - believe breastfeeding is something that should be regarded as completely normal and appropriate in any context. Some countries are better at dealing with this than others, but I don't think Europeans are perfect on the matter either.
- ToastyMallows 13y agoI'll agree with that, usually the pictures are a little more discrete though, but I guess the larger issue is, should they have be more discrete? I think it all depends on context.
- JonSkeptic 13y ago>Snowden warned about the relationship between the NSA and GCHQ, saying the organisations have been jointly responsible for developing techniques that allow the mass harvesting and analysis of internet traffic. >"It's not just a US problem," he said. "They are worse than the US." Interesting. The Brits care less about privacy than the U.S.
- swombat 13y agoBrits generally care as much (or as little) about privacy as Americans. However, they don't have the strong constitutional protections to privacy that the US has. Not that these are proving to be all that strong, as things go...
- tarkin2 13y agoI fear the Brits are more pessimistic about their government than US citizens. Which I've always felt dangerous - on a personal, social and democratic level - if combined with isolation from the country's political system.
- jgrahamc 13y agoNobody at Cheltenham is particularly well paid, compared to the private sector at least – a junior analyst might earn £25,000. "We can offer a fantastic mission but we can’t compete with [private sector] salaries," one briefing note lamented. Yep. That was a big part of why when I talked to a GCHQ recruiter when I was finishing my doctorate that I didn't bother going any further.
- harrytuttle 13y agoI had a friend who started work there about 3 years ago. Once you're there, you're also 100% unemployable in the private sector immediately thereafter. He tried to get a job outside the place for nearly a year after realising on week two it was a bad move. I actually ended up writing him a reference from my company for some private work to cover the time he was there and he said he was unemployed for the entire period.
- robgough 13y agoI'm curious as to why you think they're unemployable? Simply because they can't talk about what they've been doing, and you can't ask for a reference - or is it something about the job itself?
- harrytuttle 13y agoIts about the public sector. Once you've done public sector work in the UK, you are tarnished. This isn't a real barrier, but one put up by management.
- UVB-76 13y agoI'd imagine not being able to tell prospective employers about any of the experience you gained or achievements you made in the course of your employment there would also be an issue?
- harrytuttle 13y ago
- northwest 13y agoThe general geopolitical trend seems to be that the US is about to take control over Europe. Slowly, but under the radar of the People. Maybe we really could all agree on having 1 big merger. But the idea that "Americope" would then be controlled mainly out of North America is pretty unhealthy/insane.
- wil421 13y agoIn a sense "Americope" is already a reality. They have already used their power to divert the Bolivian presidents plane and restrict the airspace that Snowden might have used to get out of Europe. When these Snowden leaks first came out I was hoping that Europe would stand up to the US but the fact is that many of the Intel agencies in Europe are either in on the various programs or benefit from them via funding or some sort of data sharing.
- ceeK 13y agoWhat scares me further is that The Guardian seem to be the only publication that are reporting on this. I'm a frequent BBC News reader and generally trust in there neutrality. I would not have heard about any of the recent revelations if not for The Guardian. I didn't even know about Tempora until I saw it on a HN comment and looked it up on Wikipedia. Apparently there has been a "D-Notice" to prevent reporting on the matter [1]. [1]http://order-order.com/2013/06/08/d-notice-june-7-2013/ http://order-order.com/2013/06/08/d-notice-june-7-2013/
- harrytuttle 13y agoThe BBC are terrible. Whilst they don't usually outright lie, they cherry pick stories that don't piss off the ruling elite until everyone else has thoroughly jumped on them. Apart from the guardian, every other news source in the UK is arse paper.
- ceeK 13y agoSuffice to say I think my source of news has changed into The Guardian's hands. Funny enough that the news they report and others don't is the only news I really care about.
- osbertlancaster 13y agoMe too. Usually the bbc/guardian/telegraph all have the same stories, just with a different slant. BUT for Snowden leaks there is a black hole, with only the guardian covering it. (Though everyone covers personal gossip about Snowden, of course). Scary.
- tarkin2 13y agoI often wonder why it's mostly always The Guardian. It's surely not the only left-wing newspaper out there. I wonder if having the Scott Trust[1] as its backer gives it has more freedom in these matters compared to other papers. [1] http://www.gmgplc.co.uk/the-scott-trust/ http://www.gmgplc.co.uk/the-scott-trust/
- Daniel_Newby 13y ago> I would not have heard about any of the recent revelations if not for The Guardian. Once again, this is not news. Joint operations between NSA/CIA and MI5/6 have been thoroughly reported for decades. The Menwith Hill facility in particular has been doing its spy thing for half a century. Nor is it news that both countries use regulatory arbitrage to evade each other's intel laws.
- aspensmonster 13y agoAbsolutely disgusting. >When GCHQ does supply the US with valuable intelligence, the agency boasts about it. In one review, GCHQ boasted that it had supplied "unique contributions" to the NSA during its investigation of the American citizen responsible for an attempted car bomb attack in Times Square, New York City, in 2010. >No other detail is provided – but it raises the possibility that GCHQ might have been spying on an American living in the US. The NSA is prohibited from doing this by US law. I'd say that's more than a possibility. That's a reasonable inference. And there's nothing that any of the citizens of our respective western democracies can do about it. Our own governments aren't representing our interests. We can't flee to other governments because they're the ones doing our own government's dirty work. It's corruption all the way down to protect us from a nebulous threat, even though the panopticon presents a far more pervasive and persistent threat than any terrorist could ever dream of, and whose motivations are typically a response to our own foreign policies to begin with. It's a nasty positive feedback loop that I want no part in, but have no substantive say in regardless.
- znowi 13y agoI suspect similar cooperations are in effect in many countries in Europe. Which would also explain a very compliant reaction in the Snowden case.
- freeduck 13y agoGCHQ at least on paper, is supposed to protect the British society. But as a wise man once said: You can not serve two masters. Who does GCHQ serve? The British or the hand that feed them.