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It's a deep denial of the reality when you say that. Both my and your lives are 95% peaceful anarchy - we voluntarily interact with who we want and ignore peop

It's a deep denial of the reality when you say that. Both my and your lives are 95% peaceful anarchy - we voluntarily interact with who we want and ignore people we dislike or disapprove of. The remaining 5% - is when some dudes in costumes brainwash us to comply with a well-hidden gun. Try to "disagree" by not paying your taxes and see what happens.

nknighthb 13y ago
Why would I ever not pay my taxes? I have no desire to harm society. That you require the threat of a gun to pay your taxes is scary.
- oleganza 13y ago
  Society != government.
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    An assertion I disagree with.
    - oleganza 13y ago
      If you feel that you don't get enough of gov "care" when someone doesn't pay taxes, it means you are personally entitled to that amount that he didn't pay, right? If you feel you are personally entitled, will you consider it moral to come and get what's yours? Will you allow other citizens to do so towards you? About income tax: imagine I work an hour and sell some artwork to a friend. How did this affect anyone on the planet so that government is entitled for an income tax from what my friend gave me? If I tell you about that transaction, will you consider it moral and good to report it to IRS? Will you do that to any of your friends, or only people you don't like much?
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        Blindly equating the actions of society and the actions of individuals is at the heart of the problem with your worldview, and one of the many reasons I disagree with it.
- lgbr 13y ago
  That you might pay your taxes voluntarily is charming, but do you really think that if all enforcement behind tax collection is lost that most of the population will pay their taxes?
  - nknighthb 13y ago
    Enforcement of laws does not require threat of violence except against those who threaten violence in response to enforcement. Wage garnishment, liens, and asset forfeiture are effective means of collecting sums owed without anybody pointing a gun. Even if you are arrested for tax evasion, violence will not be used unless you appear to pose a threat. All I hear when someone talks about how laws are enforced with guns is "I am civilized only so long as someone has the capacity to be more violent than I.". To me, this is madness.
    - lgbr 13y ago
      Speaking for the US here, but I believe the same is true in most places. If I fail to pay my taxes and I sit at home completely non-violently, at some point, a man with a gun will come to my house and move me. If I ignore liens, my home will be foreclosed, and eventually the sheriff will forcibly remove me from the property. If I am subject to asset forfeiture and my cars, trucks, bulldozers, gold bars, or prized kittens are ever found, they will be forcibly taken from me. This is all done through the use of force by men who wield guns.
      - nknighthb 13y ago
        You continue to equate the person possessing a gun with the gun being used against you. The gun isn't there to be used against you unless you're going to be violent. The gun is there because they can never be sure when someone might become violent.
        snitko 13y ago
        A robber comes to you on the street with a gun in his pocket. He kindly suggests you hand him your wallet and that'd be the end of it, no violence is going to happen, he promises. He also points out that if you decide to fight back, he's probably gonna shoot you. So what we have here is a threat of violence. It may be not as awful as violence itself, but it's still immoral, don't you agree? And a robber is still a criminal because he takes away things you don't want to give him voluntarily.
rdouble 13y ago
What happens when you don't pay your taxes is that a couple years later you get mail that says please pay your taxes.
- oleganza 13y ago
  And then? Does government ever say "oh, nevermind"? After a couple of notices your bank account will be frozen, or your passport "revoked" etc.
  - rdouble 13y ago
    If you never intend to pay your taxes the government can garnish your wages. The individual state governments are far more vigilant about this than the federal government, however. California will dip into your Wells Fargo account almost immediately but one can not pay federal taxes for quite some time. You occasionally hear about some celebrity or fiancier getting busted for not paying their taxes for the past 20 years. Your passport is never revoked, though. Congress has tried to get a bill to do that but it has never passed. Certainly "men with guns" do not show up at your house if you miss the April 15 deadline as seems to be suggested in these ridiculous discussions. This is a country where at least half of the government officials themselves also hate taxes and dodge them as much as possible.

nknighthb 13y ago

Why would I ever not pay my taxes? I have no desire to harm society. That you require the threat of a gun to pay your taxes is scary.

oleganza 13y ago
Society != government.
- nknighthb 13y ago
  An assertion I disagree with.
  - oleganza 13y ago
    If you feel that you don't get enough of gov "care" when someone doesn't pay taxes, it means you are personally entitled to that amount that he didn't pay, right? If you feel you are personally entitled, will you consider it moral to come and get what's yours? Will you allow other citizens to do so towards you? About income tax: imagine I work an hour and sell some artwork to a friend. How did this affect anyone on the planet so that government is entitled for an income tax from what my friend gave me? If I tell you about that transaction, will you consider it moral and good to report it to IRS? Will you do that to any of your friends, or only people you don't like much?
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      Blindly equating the actions of society and the actions of individuals is at the heart of the problem with your worldview, and one of the many reasons I disagree with it.
lgbr 13y ago
That you might pay your taxes voluntarily is charming, but do you really think that if all enforcement behind tax collection is lost that most of the population will pay their taxes?
- nknighthb 13y ago
  Enforcement of laws does not require threat of violence except against those who threaten violence in response to enforcement. Wage garnishment, liens, and asset forfeiture are effective means of collecting sums owed without anybody pointing a gun. Even if you are arrested for tax evasion, violence will not be used unless you appear to pose a threat. All I hear when someone talks about how laws are enforced with guns is "I am civilized only so long as someone has the capacity to be more violent than I.". To me, this is madness.
  - lgbr 13y ago
    Speaking for the US here, but I believe the same is true in most places. If I fail to pay my taxes and I sit at home completely non-violently, at some point, a man with a gun will come to my house and move me. If I ignore liens, my home will be foreclosed, and eventually the sheriff will forcibly remove me from the property. If I am subject to asset forfeiture and my cars, trucks, bulldozers, gold bars, or prized kittens are ever found, they will be forcibly taken from me. This is all done through the use of force by men who wield guns.
    - nknighthb 13y ago
      You continue to equate the person possessing a gun with the gun being used against you. The gun isn't there to be used against you unless you're going to be violent. The gun is there because they can never be sure when someone might become violent.
      - snitko 13y ago
        A robber comes to you on the street with a gun in his pocket. He kindly suggests you hand him your wallet and that'd be the end of it, no violence is going to happen, he promises. He also points out that if you decide to fight back, he's probably gonna shoot you. So what we have here is a threat of violence. It may be not as awful as violence itself, but it's still immoral, don't you agree? And a robber is still a criminal because he takes away things you don't want to give him voluntarily.

rdouble 13y ago

What happens when you don't pay your taxes is that a couple years later you get mail that says please pay your taxes.

oleganza 13y ago
And then? Does government ever say "oh, nevermind"? After a couple of notices your bank account will be frozen, or your passport "revoked" etc.
- rdouble 13y ago
  If you never intend to pay your taxes the government can garnish your wages. The individual state governments are far more vigilant about this than the federal government, however. California will dip into your Wells Fargo account almost immediately but one can not pay federal taxes for quite some time. You occasionally hear about some celebrity or fiancier getting busted for not paying their taxes for the past 20 years. Your passport is never revoked, though. Congress has tried to get a bill to do that but it has never passed. Certainly "men with guns" do not show up at your house if you miss the April 15 deadline as seems to be suggested in these ridiculous discussions. This is a country where at least half of the government officials themselves also hate taxes and dodge them as much as possible.