5 ms·

But does he ship?

by meemoo 13y ago

But does he ship?

seanmcdirmid 13y ago
Sometimes not shipping gives us more freedom to explore.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
malandrew 13y ago
I really wish he did. I think one of the greatest disservices he does himself is not shipping working code for the examples in his presentation. We've seen what and we're intrigued, but ship something that shows how so we can take the idea and run with it.
- nickmain 13y ago
  I think the whole point of his series of talks is to inspire others to invent new things that not even he has thought of.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    A delay in releasing code would be valuable then. Those too impatient to wait can start hacking on something new now and give lots of thought to this frontier and those that want to explore casually can do so a few months later when the source is released. Releasing nothing is a non-solution. Why make everyone else stumble where you have? That's just inconsiderate. Dicebat Bernardus Carnotensis nos esse quasi nanos, gigantium humeris insidentes, ut possimus plura eis et remotiora videre, non utique proprii visus acumine, aut eminentia corporis, sed quia in altum subvenimur et extollimur magnitudine gigantea.
  - xlayn 13y ago
    bingo, this remembers me of people not having time to get bored and then innovate by giving your mind some free space to go around. The typical scenario of the problem solution once you give it a break....
- mietek 13y ago
  So, have you seen Media for Thinking the Unthinkable? http://vimeo.com/67076984 http://vimeo.com/67076984 The working code for the Nile viewer presented is on GitHub: https://github.com/damelang/nile/tree/master/viz/NileViewer https://github.com/damelang/nile/tree/master/viz/NileViewer
n00b101 13y ago
> But does he ship? Why does that matter?
- stonemetal 13y ago
  Fooling around with a paint brush in your study is fine, but real artist ship. A bunch of ideas that sound great in theory are just that, it is only by surviving the crucible of the real world that ideas are validated and truly tested. When Guy Steele and James Gosling were the only software developers in the world who could program in Java, every Java program was a masterpiece. It is only once the tool was placed in the hands of mere mortals that its flaws were truly known.
  - jowiar 13y ago
    Sometimes the journey is the product. Walk around a good gallery. There are a pretty good number of pieces entitled "Study #3", or something of that sort. An artist is playing around with a tool, or a technique, trying to figure out something new. Piano music is probably where this concept gets the most attention. Many études, such as those by Chopin, are among the most significant musical works of the era.
    - RogerL 13y ago
      Yes, sometimes. In another talk Bret claims that you basically cannot do visual art/design without immediate feedback. I was wondering how he thought people that create metal sculptures via welding, or carve marble, possibly work. It's just trivially wrong to assert you need that immediate feeback, and calls all of the reasoning into question.
      - foobarbazqux 13y ago
        Good point. I think programmers would be better off dropping the artistic pretensions altogether and accepting that they are much closer to engineers and architects in their construction of digital sandcastles.
      - 13y ago
bachback 13y ago
he is not allowed to talk about his ipad / Apple stuff. did TBL ship the W3C? protocols are the perfect example of shipping by design.
Draiken 13y ago
He probably doesn't. He stays too much time not doing the machine work :) The fact that you point "shipping" as a part of this discussion just shows how much he's right.

But does he ship?

by meemoo 13y ago

But does he ship?

seanmcdirmid 13y ago

Sometimes not shipping gives us more freedom to explore.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

malandrew 13y ago

I really wish he did. I think one of the greatest disservices he does himself is not shipping working code for the examples in his presentation. We've seen what and we're intrigued, but ship something that shows how so we can take the idea and run with it.

nickmain 13y ago
I think the whole point of his series of talks is to inspire others to invent new things that not even he has thought of.
- malandrew 13y ago
  A delay in releasing code would be valuable then. Those too impatient to wait can start hacking on something new now and give lots of thought to this frontier and those that want to explore casually can do so a few months later when the source is released. Releasing nothing is a non-solution. Why make everyone else stumble where you have? That's just inconsiderate. Dicebat Bernardus Carnotensis nos esse quasi nanos, gigantium humeris insidentes, ut possimus plura eis et remotiora videre, non utique proprii visus acumine, aut eminentia corporis, sed quia in altum subvenimur et extollimur magnitudine gigantea.
- xlayn 13y ago
  bingo, this remembers me of people not having time to get bored and then innovate by giving your mind some free space to go around. The typical scenario of the problem solution once you give it a break....
mietek 13y ago
So, have you seen Media for Thinking the Unthinkable? http://vimeo.com/67076984 http://vimeo.com/67076984 The working code for the Nile viewer presented is on GitHub: https://github.com/damelang/nile/tree/master/viz/NileViewer https://github.com/damelang/nile/tree/master/viz/NileViewer

n00b101 13y ago

> But does he ship? Why does that matter?

stonemetal 13y ago
Fooling around with a paint brush in your study is fine, but real artist ship. A bunch of ideas that sound great in theory are just that, it is only by surviving the crucible of the real world that ideas are validated and truly tested. When Guy Steele and James Gosling were the only software developers in the world who could program in Java, every Java program was a masterpiece. It is only once the tool was placed in the hands of mere mortals that its flaws were truly known.
- jowiar 13y ago
  Sometimes the journey is the product. Walk around a good gallery. There are a pretty good number of pieces entitled "Study #3", or something of that sort. An artist is playing around with a tool, or a technique, trying to figure out something new. Piano music is probably where this concept gets the most attention. Many études, such as those by Chopin, are among the most significant musical works of the era.
  - RogerL 13y ago
    Yes, sometimes. In another talk Bret claims that you basically cannot do visual art/design without immediate feedback. I was wondering how he thought people that create metal sculptures via welding, or carve marble, possibly work. It's just trivially wrong to assert you need that immediate feeback, and calls all of the reasoning into question.
    - foobarbazqux 13y ago
      Good point. I think programmers would be better off dropping the artistic pretensions altogether and accepting that they are much closer to engineers and architects in their construction of digital sandcastles.
    - 13y ago

bachback 13y ago

he is not allowed to talk about his ipad / Apple stuff. did TBL ship the W3C? protocols are the perfect example of shipping by design.

Draiken 13y ago

He probably doesn't. He stays too much time not doing the machine work :) The fact that you point "shipping" as a part of this discussion just shows how much he's right.