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My take on this, is that you can create an app/site that is engaging and depletes self/control or willpower and then monetize that at the end by selling cake or

by hoi 13y ago

My take on this, is that you can create an app/site that is engaging and depletes self/control or willpower and then monetize that at the end by selling cake or equivalent. Can test if the conversion funnel for cake (or low self-contro) goods) sell more after a more 'intense' work out on the site/app.

asciimo 13y ago
I don't think that you're being facetious. But I don't care; that's an awesome takeaway. Score one for the Dark Side.
- hoi 13y ago
  Nope, not being facetious, it's a perfectly valid monetization strategy to test and pursue, in some ways, it's similar to a gaming mechanic... spend energy doing things that interest you, then pay to replenish energy, except the energy your depleting is cognitive.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    In the same way rohypnol is a perfectly valid dating strategy? If the ends justify the means, just about anything is "valid" as long as it achieves the desired result.
    - hoi 13y ago
      That's being facetious since you're now using morally questionable examples and rohypnol wouldn't fit the example of buying something that relies on willpower to stop you. A better example would be, an exam revision/study website that affiliates themselves with energy drinks/bars. There isn't a requirement to buy the energy drinks to continue to use the app, but would be interesting to see if people are more inclined to buy the energy foods. Alternatively a bakery/cake website, whether they can increase conversions.
      - PavlovsCat 13y ago
        > That's being facetious since you're now using morally questionable examples No, I'm 100% serious. It's morally questionable for the same reason, it just has lots more of that reason: To softly encourage someone to go against their own interest, or to force them, is a difference of degree, not in morality. As Kathy puts it: But if it's "content" designed solely to suck people in ("7 ways to be OMG awesome!!") for the chance to "convert", we're hurting people. If we're pumping out "content" because frequency, we're hurting people. > There isn't a requirement to buy the energy drinks to continue to use the app, but would be interesting to see if people are more inclined to buy the energy foods. Why not pay breastfeeding mothers to put stickers of Ronald McDonald on their breasts? Wouldn't it be interesting to see if more kids grow up eat at McDonald's a lot? For more info, search on youtube for "mitchell webb kill the poor"... i.e. just because it's possible, just because it's profitable for YOU, doesn't mean you should do it. Just because you win a little, for a while, doesn't mean zero sum games aren't a waste of time and life in the long run. Because I know you love my analogies: This is like someone reading Nineteen-Eightyfour as a manual; a tragic waste of a great point made. > Alternatively a bakery/cake website, whether they can increase conversions. To find ways to make people eat unhealthy, because who cares what suffering (and for those who only understand that: gigantic costs, too) that produces down the road?
    - richardjordan 13y ago
      rohypnol isn't used to facilitate a valid dating strategy but a valid raping strategy so your analogy breaks down
      - PavlovsCat 13y ago
        Instead of mutual joy and "profit", breaking down the defense of people with means deliberately crafted for that, to get something they would otherwise not give you -- to me that is the little brother of rape, and at any rate it's the same process leading to slightly different results. But are they really that different? Showing people pretty successful people with soft drink X is not just informing grownups about the properties of your product, it's trying to manipulate people, and it works on many, it's a HUGE industry. In that respect, we totally live in and accept a rape culture. Remember how everybody fawned over Obama's election campgain, especially the business and marketing world? Down the road, real people die as the result of that. How many children got neglected and died because someone played too much Farmville? I have no idea, it's not like that gets seriously explored, is it. Who gives a shit, I like money. But you're right, a better example would have been a dating tip I recall somewhere in Ovid's writings (it was the last thing of him I read, I decided he's a scumbag just for this heh): take her to a gladiator fight because the excitement will transfer to her and make it easier to cop some feels, and most importantly promise her a lot to get her to sleep with you, and keep repeating that; exploiting that she'll consider the times she slept with you an investment, that might pay off by you fulfilling your promises to her, and which she would loose if she stops giving in to your sweet talk. That's like the ideal Skinner box loop, you get profit out of them, while they destroy themselves to be able to give you that profit.
    - asdasf 13y ago
      No, because rohypnol doesn't cause a person to choose to do something they would otherwise not do. It causes the person to have amnesia and not remember what happened. To be a reasonable analogy, this app would need to automatically take their money, send them a cake, and drug them so they don't know why they have a cake and why their money is missing.
lazugod 13y ago
Put the health food by the petting zoo and the junk food by the roller coaster.
jakejake 13y ago
Mmmmm..... Funnel cake. (Sorry)

by hoi 13y ago

asciimo 13y ago

I don't think that you're being facetious. But I don't care; that's an awesome takeaway. Score one for the Dark Side.

hoi 13y ago
Nope, not being facetious, it's a perfectly valid monetization strategy to test and pursue, in some ways, it's similar to a gaming mechanic... spend energy doing things that interest you, then pay to replenish energy, except the energy your depleting is cognitive.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  In the same way rohypnol is a perfectly valid dating strategy? If the ends justify the means, just about anything is "valid" as long as it achieves the desired result.
  - hoi 13y ago
    That's being facetious since you're now using morally questionable examples and rohypnol wouldn't fit the example of buying something that relies on willpower to stop you. A better example would be, an exam revision/study website that affiliates themselves with energy drinks/bars. There isn't a requirement to buy the energy drinks to continue to use the app, but would be interesting to see if people are more inclined to buy the energy foods. Alternatively a bakery/cake website, whether they can increase conversions.
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      > That's being facetious since you're now using morally questionable examples No, I'm 100% serious. It's morally questionable for the same reason, it just has lots more of that reason: To softly encourage someone to go against their own interest, or to force them, is a difference of degree, not in morality. As Kathy puts it: But if it's "content" designed solely to suck people in ("7 ways to be OMG awesome!!") for the chance to "convert", we're hurting people. If we're pumping out "content" because frequency, we're hurting people. > There isn't a requirement to buy the energy drinks to continue to use the app, but would be interesting to see if people are more inclined to buy the energy foods. Why not pay breastfeeding mothers to put stickers of Ronald McDonald on their breasts? Wouldn't it be interesting to see if more kids grow up eat at McDonald's a lot? For more info, search on youtube for "mitchell webb kill the poor"... i.e. just because it's possible, just because it's profitable for YOU, doesn't mean you should do it. Just because you win a little, for a while, doesn't mean zero sum games aren't a waste of time and life in the long run. Because I know you love my analogies: This is like someone reading Nineteen-Eightyfour as a manual; a tragic waste of a great point made. > Alternatively a bakery/cake website, whether they can increase conversions. To find ways to make people eat unhealthy, because who cares what suffering (and for those who only understand that: gigantic costs, too) that produces down the road?
  - richardjordan 13y ago
    rohypnol isn't used to facilitate a valid dating strategy but a valid raping strategy so your analogy breaks down
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      Instead of mutual joy and "profit", breaking down the defense of people with means deliberately crafted for that, to get something they would otherwise not give you -- to me that is the little brother of rape, and at any rate it's the same process leading to slightly different results. But are they really that different? Showing people pretty successful people with soft drink X is not just informing grownups about the properties of your product, it's trying to manipulate people, and it works on many, it's a HUGE industry. In that respect, we totally live in and accept a rape culture. Remember how everybody fawned over Obama's election campgain, especially the business and marketing world? Down the road, real people die as the result of that. How many children got neglected and died because someone played too much Farmville? I have no idea, it's not like that gets seriously explored, is it. Who gives a shit, I like money. But you're right, a better example would have been a dating tip I recall somewhere in Ovid's writings (it was the last thing of him I read, I decided he's a scumbag just for this heh): take her to a gladiator fight because the excitement will transfer to her and make it easier to cop some feels, and most importantly promise her a lot to get her to sleep with you, and keep repeating that; exploiting that she'll consider the times she slept with you an investment, that might pay off by you fulfilling your promises to her, and which she would loose if she stops giving in to your sweet talk. That's like the ideal Skinner box loop, you get profit out of them, while they destroy themselves to be able to give you that profit.
  - asdasf 13y ago
    No, because rohypnol doesn't cause a person to choose to do something they would otherwise not do. It causes the person to have amnesia and not remember what happened. To be a reasonable analogy, this app would need to automatically take their money, send them a cake, and drug them so they don't know why they have a cake and why their money is missing.

lazugod 13y ago

Put the health food by the petting zoo and the junk food by the roller coaster.

jakejake 13y ago

Mmmmm..... Funnel cake. (Sorry)