7 ms·

Some of us care more about being able to use our phone for whatever we damn please rather than depend on a highly restrictive app store that censors a ton of us

Some of us care more about being able to use our phone for whatever we damn please rather than depend on a highly restrictive app store that censors a ton of useful software. People have different priorities. This is a tired meme; if you're that bothered by lag you're not using Android, if you're using Android it's not going to be such a huge change in the grand scheme of things. Can we have another argument for Apple superiority please?

gfodor 13y ago
It's not about Apple per se because I am pretty sure Windows Phone does not have these problems either. It's an attention to detail thing. That they shipped the S4 with obvious animation lag shows they may just be blind to it or notice it and make a calculation that the tradeoff is not worth it to fix it. In other words, they're willing to ship something that is kind of shitty because of a cost-benefit analysis, or they can't even see that it's shitty. This to me is not the strategy of a company who is seeking a leadership position in terms of innovation, and in this market, a leadership position is pretty important since things change so quickly. Say what you will about Apple, but it's pretty clear they pride themselves on shipping things they are proud to put their name on because they only ship it when they feel the details are right. The App Store review process is in this spirit, they don't want shitty apps screwing up the experience on their phones. This is why the Maps debacle was a catalyst for their stock plummeting, it showed to many this may have been lost with the loss of Jobs. I think the final build of iOS 7 is going to speak volumes about how Apple's culture has changed or not. If they get the details right, they've still got it. If it's laggy, has minor usability issues everywhere, etc, then that is the type of thing that I think spells Apple's doom. edit: To summarize, I don't think 'animation lag' is in the same class of tradeoffs as 'open vs closed app stores.' Animation lag is a bug, and makes your work look objectively shitty, full stop. Animation lag 'matters' to everyone, even if they don't overtly notice it, because to everyone, animation lag breaks the illusion of fluid motion and interactivity on a subconscious level. It's sloppiness, plain and simple.
- wtetzner 13y ago
  > To summarize, I don't think 'animation lag' is in the same class of tradeoffs as 'open vs closed app stores.' Animation lag is a bug I think a bug is more forgivable than a deliberate decision to make things broken (closed app store).
- Daishiman 13y ago
  Censored applications are a moral failure about an order of magnitude worse. And lag bugs are a result of a technological decision in Android made 8 years ago with a cost that goes far beyond a simple fix (replacing the Java runtime with something with deterministic memory management). It's likely that in time we'll see a native of manually memory-managed runtime in Android, at a huge development cost; I can hardly see Apple providing an open ecosystem, ever.
- Peaker 13y ago
  > The App Store review process is in this spirit, they don't want shitty apps screwing up the experience on their phones. This is false. Apple has banned applications for dubious grounds, such as competing with Apple. Extremely useful apps like Swype and its alternatives have been banned. The app store is not just about protecting users from shitty apps, it is also about total control over the iOS platform, often to the detriment of users.
  - oblique63 13y ago
    And this is why I started boycotting Apple products. Honestly, I agree with about 99% of the 'pro-apple' arguments here, because it is frustrating that companies aren't stepping up their UX game, but that's just peanuts compared to this type of nonsense: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6092875 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6092875 Luckily, my Nexus 4 has given me a smoother experience than even my old ipad 2 so far (can't say the same of my nexus 7 unfortunately), so it isn't that bad either way.
  - gfodor 13y ago
    I agree that there have been times where Apple has not allowed an app in the app store for dubious reasons. For example, not allowing Google Maps for the longest time was ridiculous and blatantly anti-competitive. Swype however is kind of an obvious example of something they likely are not allowing not because of fear of competition but because Swype, if successful, would effectively fragment the text input mechanism on iOS. I can respect the argument that on iOS Apple wants to maintain control of the experience of entering text. Regardless if you feel this is an ethical thing to do, I think you have to acknowledge that in that case it is less about anti-competitive behavior and more about maintaining consistency, which is a core tenet of good design. I think overall the App Store process is largely about maintaining things like quality, consistency, and performance, and if you don't believe me you can look to examples like the Facebook platform where the element of human-screening was ignored and the place filled up with garbage.
guscost 13y ago
My phone has NanoStudio and can synthesize multichannel audio without noticeable latency. It might be a niche thing, but it's still not a bad argument.

gfodor 13y ago

It's not about Apple per se because I am pretty sure Windows Phone does not have these problems either. It's an attention to detail thing. That they shipped the S4 with obvious animation lag shows they may just be blind to it or notice it and make a calculation that the tradeoff is not worth it to fix it. In other words, they're willing to ship something that is kind of shitty because of a cost-benefit analysis, or they can't even see that it's shitty. This to me is not the strategy of a company who is seeking a leadership position in terms of innovation, and in this market, a leadership position is pretty important since things change so quickly. Say what you will about Apple, but it's pretty clear they pride themselves on shipping things they are proud to put their name on because they only ship it when they feel the details are right. The App Store review process is in this spirit, they don't want shitty apps screwing up the experience on their phones. This is why the Maps debacle was a catalyst for their stock plummeting, it showed to many this may have been lost with the loss of Jobs. I think the final build of iOS 7 is going to speak volumes about how Apple's culture has changed or not. If they get the details right, they've still got it. If it's laggy, has minor usability issues everywhere, etc, then that is the type of thing that I think spells Apple's doom. edit: To summarize, I don't think 'animation lag' is in the same class of tradeoffs as 'open vs closed app stores.' Animation lag is a bug, and makes your work look objectively shitty, full stop. Animation lag 'matters' to everyone, even if they don't overtly notice it, because to everyone, animation lag breaks the illusion of fluid motion and interactivity on a subconscious level. It's sloppiness, plain and simple.

wtetzner 13y ago
> To summarize, I don't think 'animation lag' is in the same class of tradeoffs as 'open vs closed app stores.' Animation lag is a bug I think a bug is more forgivable than a deliberate decision to make things broken (closed app store).
Daishiman 13y ago
Censored applications are a moral failure about an order of magnitude worse. And lag bugs are a result of a technological decision in Android made 8 years ago with a cost that goes far beyond a simple fix (replacing the Java runtime with something with deterministic memory management). It's likely that in time we'll see a native of manually memory-managed runtime in Android, at a huge development cost; I can hardly see Apple providing an open ecosystem, ever.
Peaker 13y ago
> The App Store review process is in this spirit, they don't want shitty apps screwing up the experience on their phones. This is false. Apple has banned applications for dubious grounds, such as competing with Apple. Extremely useful apps like Swype and its alternatives have been banned. The app store is not just about protecting users from shitty apps, it is also about total control over the iOS platform, often to the detriment of users.
- oblique63 13y ago
  And this is why I started boycotting Apple products. Honestly, I agree with about 99% of the 'pro-apple' arguments here, because it is frustrating that companies aren't stepping up their UX game, but that's just peanuts compared to this type of nonsense: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6092875 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6092875 Luckily, my Nexus 4 has given me a smoother experience than even my old ipad 2 so far (can't say the same of my nexus 7 unfortunately), so it isn't that bad either way.
- gfodor 13y ago
  I agree that there have been times where Apple has not allowed an app in the app store for dubious reasons. For example, not allowing Google Maps for the longest time was ridiculous and blatantly anti-competitive. Swype however is kind of an obvious example of something they likely are not allowing not because of fear of competition but because Swype, if successful, would effectively fragment the text input mechanism on iOS. I can respect the argument that on iOS Apple wants to maintain control of the experience of entering text. Regardless if you feel this is an ethical thing to do, I think you have to acknowledge that in that case it is less about anti-competitive behavior and more about maintaining consistency, which is a core tenet of good design. I think overall the App Store process is largely about maintaining things like quality, consistency, and performance, and if you don't believe me you can look to examples like the Facebook platform where the element of human-screening was ignored and the place filled up with garbage.

guscost 13y ago

My phone has NanoStudio and can synthesize multichannel audio without noticeable latency. It might be a niche thing, but it's still not a bad argument.