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Fake memory implanted in mice with a beam of light
- etrautmann 13y agoQuick translation: 1) Researchers found neurons that are active in one context (say, mice are in a blue cage). 2) They use a genetic tool to target these neurons and make them sensitive to light 3) The researchers then deliver mild foot shocks to the mice, while activating these neurons 4) Mice are put back into the original context (blue cage), and exhibit behaviors associated with expecting foot shocks. Makes sense, nothing too surprising but getting something like this to work is impressive. *edit for clarity
- bcn 13y agoHere is the abstract (all I could find) of this paper: Memories can be unreliable. We created a false memory in mice by optogenetically manipulating memory engram–bearing cells in the hippocampus. Dentate gyrus (DG) or CA1 neurons activated by exposure to a particular context were labeled with channelrhodopsin-2. These neurons were later optically reactivated during fear conditioning in a different context. The DG experimental group showed increased freezing in the original context, in which a foot shock was never delivered. The recall of this false memory was context-specific, activated similar downstream regions engaged during natural fear memory recall, and was also capable of driving an active fear response. Our data demonstrate that it is possible to generate an internally represented and behaviorally expressed fear memory via artificial means. - from https://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6144/387 https://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6144/387 The Ars article also has a good link to a backgrounder on optogenetics: http://f1000.com/prime/reports/b/3/11/ http://f1000.com/prime/reports/b/3/11/
- VladRussian2 13y ago>increased freezing in the original context, in which a foot shock was never delivered seems like an effective way to train things like correct reaction for the "Attention" command in soldiers, schoolchildren, employees during all-hands,... On the other side, some decades later we will be appalled by the modern practice of electrical shocking of mice the same ways some of us are already appalled by medieval torture.
- etrautmann 13y agoThese foot shocks are pretty mild. This is a bit of hyperbole...
- ars 13y agoMedieval torture is a bad example because it was done with the intent of causing pain. This is not. A better example might be vivisection - it used to be done without any analgesia at all, for the simple reason that they had none. But they learned a LOT from it. Today the idea is repugnant, but that's because we have analgesics we can use. This is the same way - it's the best tool we have. Once we get a better tool we'll use it, but don't criticize the past for not using a tool that didn't exist. Even worse would be to say not to do the experiment at all.
- VladRussian2 13y ago>Medieval torture is a bad example because it was done with the intent of causing pain. This is not. Jews in concentration camps were experimented on with intent of scientific experiment. By your standard it is just ok. Intent doesn't matter to the subject of torture, be it an interrogated witch, 911 terrorist, Jew in concentration camp being experimented on or a dog being vivisected. > Today the idea is repugnant, but that's because we have analgesics we can use. No. The idea became repugnant to some [the most advanced people of the time] and through their effort the analgesics started to be used. In particular, ether was first used for surgery in 1846, while vivisection was still legal for more than half a century after that. Or do you mean UCSF doesn't have analgesics available: http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/UCSF-lapses-mean-research-animals-suffer-4065881.php http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/UCSF-lapses-mean-res... > Once we get a better tool we'll use it, but don't criticize the past for not using a tool that didn't exist. That a convenient lie - alcohol, 'shrooms, opium, various barks, cola nut, etc... have been known for like thousands years. >Even worse would be to say not to do the experiment at all. False scare, like security vs. liberty. The humanity would probably be much better off if it excluded all experiments on live animals. Our primitive, medieval, violent mentality is that keeps us from developing into advanced civilization. Live and let live.
- sillysaurus 13y agoHere's the full text PDF: http://freepdfhosting.com/bb20a253a5.pdf http://freepdfhosting.com/bb20a253a5.pdf
- functional 13y agoThe research may show that the mice are responding to stimuli, but how can anyone honestly claim to know what the experience is like, or whether the "memories" are truly recalled as negative and induce actual "fear". I mean, it's not like mice can verbalize their experience. They don't use words to tell us how they "feel" about these memories on the inside. And in the article, it states that no new memories were actually created. Only the nature of existing memories were augmented to be negative. From the article: ...whether they could create a new, negative association by flipping the switch on an old, neutral memory while giving the mouse a negative experience. So they took an existing memory of a location, and made the mice scared of the location. That's a lot different from the claim in the headline.
- tomrod 13y agoI volunteer to take part in an experiment for false memory implantation on humans. Sounds like fun.
- darkchasma 13y agoYou already did, and were a great help.
- tomrod 13y agoHah! Reminds me of "Tom" from 50 first dates. Thanks for the good laugh this afternoon.
- ExpiredLink 13y agoSounds like you'll be brain-dead afterwards.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- DanBC 13y agoI wish there was a website where people could sign up to volunteer for experimentation. They could make (simplified) health data available, and tick what kinds of things they'd like to do. Until then, here's a website that'll let you experience a common memory error. (http://psych.hanover.edu/JavaTest/CLE/Cognition/Cognition/falsememory_instructions.html http://psych.hanover.edu/JavaTest/CLE/Cognition/Cognition/fa...) There are probably more experiments you can do on yourself to induce a false memory.
- ChikkaChiChi 13y agoEven with all the Snowden articles I've read over the past few months, nothing has made me want to start manufacturing tin foil clothing more than this article just did.
- stephengillie 13y agoIf they can do this in RF frequencies to which our bodies are opaque, how long before they can do this in RF frequencies to which our bodies are transparent?
- whatshisface 13y agoIf a frequency has to go right through you without loosing energy, then none of the energy can be put in to modifying neurons. Of course, you could do like they do with radiation therapy and have lots of low-absorption beams converge on a single spot.
- return0 13y agoYou are taking it a bit too far
- etrautmann 13y agoThey can't. An RF antenna for useful wavelengths is much bigger than the size of the proteins you can genetically engineer. We CAN engineer proteins sensitive to light (eg: use the ones that are already present in your retina, and connect them to an ion channel typically found in a neuron). What you're proposing is not simple (though WOULD be immensely helpful for neuroscience research...)
- cupcake-unicorn 13y agoBut the mice had this "on-switch" installed, right? You can't just flash the light at any mouse to scare them...That amnesia light from Men in Black hopefully is not in the making...
- forgotAgain 13y agoWell it does tend to explain all of the alien abduction stories starting with a bright light.
- kamakazizuru 13y agolike any science article nowadays - - this is probably what the title should read "Fake sensation of fear implanted in GENETICALLY modified mice by repeated and prolonged exposure to a beam of light"
- return0 13y agoNo it's not a sensation, it's an association that happens as rapidly as it would happen under real circumstances. And the mice were not genetically modified, the rhodopsin was delivered through a virus. This is important because it helps us understand the way memories are encoded, however it is for very primitive and basic kinds of memory.
- kamakazizuru 13y agoim not debating its importance - as for the genetically modified part -i will give you that they werent modified at embryo stage as is typically the case in GM Species. The virus did not deliver rhodopsin - but additional genes that allowed the cells of the rats to encode the optogenetic proteins. That is by all means a genetic modification. It wasnt just a drug injection or something!
- return0 13y agoSorry, i hadn't read the actual paper until now. Actually they did use transgenic GM mice, which allow the expression of rhodopsin in activated cells. While the title of the article is not very revealing, it's pretty close to what they did, although by no means did they "use lasers to implant a memory", they used a lot of other stuff too.
- kamakazizuru 13y agoyes that was precisely my point. No sense commenting on an article if you havent read what it talks about.
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- nsxwolf 13y agoIf we gift them with a past, we create a cushion or a pillow for their emotions, and consequently, we can control them better.
- scotty79 13y agoProbably relevant: http://www.ted.com/talks/ed_boyden.html http://www.ted.com/talks/ed_boyden.html
- etrautmann 13y agoYep, this is the guy that came up with the method for making neurons sensitive to light. The technique can be applied in many ways, this is one of them.
- pyrocat 13y agoThis is more akin to the "programming" scene from A Clockwork Orange than it is of Blade Runner or Total Recall.
- lem72 13y agoDoes this mean that it might be possible to implant knowledge into our heads like in the Matrix? Could I learn Jiu Jitsu with a beam of light?
- return0 13y agoThis is one of the first studies on cellular memory traces but not the first. Similarly, in 2011 Garner et. al. had created a hybrid memory trace chemically: http://www.sciencemag.org/content/335/6075/1513 http://www.sciencemag.org/content/335/6075/1513
- EScott11 13y agoHow do they demonstrate this is not mere classical conditioning? Perhaps the mice are simple afraid of all chambers after the shock.
- drakeandrews 13y agoMice given the choice of Place A or another chamber after the treatment chose the other chamber.
- jpalioto 13y agoAnd the tinfoil heavy portfolio pays off for the paranoid investor!!
- hawkharris 13y agoThis is an interesting story, but let's be careful not to dwell on the potentially sinister uses of optogenetics. Other research groups at MIT — i.e. within the McGovern Institute for Brain Research — are using the same techniques to better understand the biological basis for psychiatric disorders. For example, they recently used light stimulation to rid rats of compulsive behaviors. I'm very excited about the potential for this technology to help people suffering with OCD, general anxiety, depression and bipolar disorder.
- Jach 13y agoWhat one giveth, one can taketh away: http://www.kurzweilai.net/how-to-erase-memory http://www.kurzweilai.net/how-to-erase-memory
- madaxe 13y agoAh, but the important question is: was the beam pink?
- likeclockwork 13y agoWas it a pink beam of light?