4 ms·

There will come a point in life where you have enough money, hopefully. At that point, you probably should start ventures that aren't about making money (though

There will come a point in life where you have enough money, hopefully. At that point, you probably should start ventures that aren't about making money (though money-making businesses are a very robust way to change the world). My theory is that this rarely actually happens. People rarely reach a point and think "ok, I have enough money now; I'll go work at a charity." Mostly due to the hedonic treadmill: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill This is actually empirically testable to some degree. I recall a recent study asking millionaires if they had enough money, and most of them said something like "no, I won't feel secure until I have 10-20 mil."

ambiate 13y ago
I would feel secure at 600,000 post-tax for a 15 year adventure into research for bioinformatics, analytics, and embedded design. During this 15 year break, I could easily notch away at the big circle of knowledge, generate side income, write books/tutorials and contribute to companies/individuals in software aspects. I would also be able to work at night. I have a reversed circadian rhythm. I spend most of my nights getting 2-4 hours of sleep and murmuring about math and programming during the other 4-6 hours. A typical job schedule holds back my productivity. My happiness is defined by obtaining/spreading knowledge. 40,000 (post-tax) a year is more than enough to maintain a household of three, take vacations, and stay on top of technology.
- kayoone 13y ago
  Sorry for OT That doesnt sound healthy, you should reverse your reversed circadian rhythm. I dont buy that this is given to you and you cant change it. When i get up at 6 a couple of days in the row its hard at first but after a while it wake up at 6 without an alarm (provided i go to bet early enough). If i stay awake until 2 all the time, i wont get up before 9. Thats a habit and you can change it.
  - zimbatm 13y ago
    Why assume he's being irresponsible ? People generally have more knowledge about themselves than a random observer on the web.
  - ziel 13y ago
    People who have sleep disorders such as Non-24 or DSPS will not set into a societally accepted cycle the way you do. While there are treatments for those conditions, they aren't as simple as just willing the problem to go away. It is possible that the grandparent is simply habitually nocturnal... but it's equally possible that something else is happening.
- amouat 13y ago
  I would suggest 600,000 (pounds? dollars?) is actually more than you need - assuming you did 15 * 40,000 - as you haven't factored in interest.
  - miriam_lockhart 13y ago
    we live in low interest rate environment so supposedly interest and inflation balance each other (or worse)
    - amouat 13y ago
      You're assuming the money is invested only as cash in the bank. It's quite possible to make considerably above inflation with other investments, and anyone with that amount of money is very likely to have a range of investment types.
      - ambiate 13y ago
        You are correct. Interest was not factored in. 5-10 year investments with loan options are also a great alternative. 40,000 was mainly a number based around family, mortgage, food, transportation, classes, hazard/maintenance(car/home/health/life) and conferences. It would be interesting to see how low I could get that number while mitigating the natural risks of family life.
        woebtz 13y ago
        How much of that theoretical nest egg would you risk to investments? 70%? 30%? Inflation chipping away your savings is a given, but investments that match or beat inflation have no guarantees. How much of the savings would remain after 15 years? Would you still feel secure going back to work in your 16th year with no money in the bank for your car/home/health/life?
- aaronblohowiak 13y ago
  Your sleep disorder may qualify for protection / 'reasonable accommodation' under the ADA.
  - ambiate 13y ago
    According to my university's accommodation services, sleep disorders do not fall under the scope of these type of service accommodations. I took in sleep studies, health records, etc. I wanted to have exams proctored at 7PM-9PM. My logic and reasoning fall extremely short at 8AM. I can sleep for 12 hours from 8PM to 8AM and still feel exhausted. Nothing is as rewarding as the sleep I get during daytime hours. Nootroics, amphetamines, melatonin, all seem to fail.
    - aaronblohowiak 13y ago
      Is your university public or private? Even if you cannot get accommodation from the university, you may want to speak with a lawyer for once you enter the workforce.
jcnnghm 13y ago
I recall a recent study asking millionaires if they had enough money, and most of them said something like "no, I won't feel secure until I have 10-20 mil." That's a rational response, given that's about the minimum necessary to provide high current income ($100-200k/year), securely growing with inflation, without touching the principal. That's basically the definition of financial security. The study indicates that empirically, rich people tend to make sound financial decision, which isn't shocking.
- disgruntledphd2 13y ago
  Yeah, but the reason its the hedonic treadmill is because when you ask people of any income bracket if they have enough money, they almost all say that they need 15-20% more. It may be that you are correct in your assertions around financial security, but the notion of the hedonic treadmill is broader than that.
  - jcnnghm 13y ago
    Yeah, but the reason its the hedonic treadmill is because when you ask people of any income bracket if they have enough money, they almost all say that they need 15-20% more. High income doesn't always imply high net worth. In 2011, fewer than 1.1% of households had over $5 million in assets. Given that at least 98.9% of households don't actually have enough money to provide moderately high current income indefinitely, everyone thinking they need 15-20% more is more of an indication of a failure in planning and basic financial literacy, not an indicator that they don't actually need more money. I think I need $10-20 million, indexed in real terms, assuming I don't step up my quality of life expectations, which is more than 20% beyond what I have today. Think of it this way, you're walking down the street in San Francisco, and you get attacked by a hobo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/11/naked-subway-man-video_n_3423310.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/11/naked-subway-man-vi...), which causes brain damage, leaving you unable to work in your current profession. How many years until you have to make a serious quality of life reduction? The whole hedonic treadmill is kind of like saying that even the people with the most food today, think they will likely need more food in the future, which isn't really shocking.

ambiate 13y ago

I would feel secure at 600,000 post-tax for a 15 year adventure into research for bioinformatics, analytics, and embedded design. During this 15 year break, I could easily notch away at the big circle of knowledge, generate side income, write books/tutorials and contribute to companies/individuals in software aspects. I would also be able to work at night. I have a reversed circadian rhythm. I spend most of my nights getting 2-4 hours of sleep and murmuring about math and programming during the other 4-6 hours. A typical job schedule holds back my productivity. My happiness is defined by obtaining/spreading knowledge. 40,000 (post-tax) a year is more than enough to maintain a household of three, take vacations, and stay on top of technology.

kayoone 13y ago
Sorry for OT That doesnt sound healthy, you should reverse your reversed circadian rhythm. I dont buy that this is given to you and you cant change it. When i get up at 6 a couple of days in the row its hard at first but after a while it wake up at 6 without an alarm (provided i go to bet early enough). If i stay awake until 2 all the time, i wont get up before 9. Thats a habit and you can change it.
- zimbatm 13y ago
  Why assume he's being irresponsible ? People generally have more knowledge about themselves than a random observer on the web.
- ziel 13y ago
  People who have sleep disorders such as Non-24 or DSPS will not set into a societally accepted cycle the way you do. While there are treatments for those conditions, they aren't as simple as just willing the problem to go away. It is possible that the grandparent is simply habitually nocturnal... but it's equally possible that something else is happening.
amouat 13y ago
I would suggest 600,000 (pounds? dollars?) is actually more than you need - assuming you did 15 * 40,000 - as you haven't factored in interest.
- miriam_lockhart 13y ago
  we live in low interest rate environment so supposedly interest and inflation balance each other (or worse)
  - amouat 13y ago
    You're assuming the money is invested only as cash in the bank. It's quite possible to make considerably above inflation with other investments, and anyone with that amount of money is very likely to have a range of investment types.
    - ambiate 13y ago
      You are correct. Interest was not factored in. 5-10 year investments with loan options are also a great alternative. 40,000 was mainly a number based around family, mortgage, food, transportation, classes, hazard/maintenance(car/home/health/life) and conferences. It would be interesting to see how low I could get that number while mitigating the natural risks of family life.
      - woebtz 13y ago
        How much of that theoretical nest egg would you risk to investments? 70%? 30%? Inflation chipping away your savings is a given, but investments that match or beat inflation have no guarantees. How much of the savings would remain after 15 years? Would you still feel secure going back to work in your 16th year with no money in the bank for your car/home/health/life?
aaronblohowiak 13y ago
Your sleep disorder may qualify for protection / 'reasonable accommodation' under the ADA.
- ambiate 13y ago
  According to my university's accommodation services, sleep disorders do not fall under the scope of these type of service accommodations. I took in sleep studies, health records, etc. I wanted to have exams proctored at 7PM-9PM. My logic and reasoning fall extremely short at 8AM. I can sleep for 12 hours from 8PM to 8AM and still feel exhausted. Nothing is as rewarding as the sleep I get during daytime hours. Nootroics, amphetamines, melatonin, all seem to fail.
  - aaronblohowiak 13y ago
    Is your university public or private? Even if you cannot get accommodation from the university, you may want to speak with a lawyer for once you enter the workforce.

jcnnghm 13y ago

I recall a recent study asking millionaires if they had enough money, and most of them said something like "no, I won't feel secure until I have 10-20 mil." That's a rational response, given that's about the minimum necessary to provide high current income ($100-200k/year), securely growing with inflation, without touching the principal. That's basically the definition of financial security. The study indicates that empirically, rich people tend to make sound financial decision, which isn't shocking.

disgruntledphd2 13y ago
Yeah, but the reason its the hedonic treadmill is because when you ask people of any income bracket if they have enough money, they almost all say that they need 15-20% more. It may be that you are correct in your assertions around financial security, but the notion of the hedonic treadmill is broader than that.
- jcnnghm 13y ago
  Yeah, but the reason its the hedonic treadmill is because when you ask people of any income bracket if they have enough money, they almost all say that they need 15-20% more. High income doesn't always imply high net worth. In 2011, fewer than 1.1% of households had over $5 million in assets. Given that at least 98.9% of households don't actually have enough money to provide moderately high current income indefinitely, everyone thinking they need 15-20% more is more of an indication of a failure in planning and basic financial literacy, not an indicator that they don't actually need more money. I think I need $10-20 million, indexed in real terms, assuming I don't step up my quality of life expectations, which is more than 20% beyond what I have today. Think of it this way, you're walking down the street in San Francisco, and you get attacked by a hobo (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/11/naked-subway-man-video_n_3423310.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/11/naked-subway-man-vi...), which causes brain damage, leaving you unable to work in your current profession. How many years until you have to make a serious quality of life reduction? The whole hedonic treadmill is kind of like saying that even the people with the most food today, think they will likely need more food in the future, which isn't really shocking.