4 ms·

I'm split on this article. On the one hand, I empathize with the author. It can be very frustrating dealing with non-technical friends/family who use computer

by eieio 13y ago

I'm split on this article. On the one hand, I empathize with the author. It can be very frustrating dealing with non-technical friends/family who use computers all the time and are seemingly incapable of doing the most basic things. Especially googling their problems. On the other hand, there are plenty of things that I do or benefit from about which I have no knowledge. I drive to work 5 days a week. I hate it. I don't even have a long commute, typically it takes under 10 minutes. But I treat it as a necessary evil and I have very little knowledge of my car. It's a tool that I use every day, but I'm sure there are many more than 12 misconceptions I have about it. Put another way, I wonder if grilling enthusiasts write articles titled "Things People Believe About Grills" targeted at folks like the author.

showsover 13y ago
But the difference is that you don't drive your car for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, years on end.
- eieio 13y ago
  Fair enough. I guess I'm just wary of articles like these because I think that nerds like me(and I'm assuming the author) have the tendency to put computers on this pedestal because we use them a lot and really really like them. It's not the end of the world when someone confuses memory with storage or thinks that www should go in front of everything. In fact, these days I'd argue that it's not hugely important for "normal" people to know either of those things. I'd say that the most important part of this article is about learning to use Google, which is a hugely important skill at this point. Misconceptions about viruses are annoying and sometimes very problematic. And backups are important. But I'd argue that just about everything else listed isn't hugely important. They're annoying misconceptions, sure. But that's about it. It's ok to be an unsophisticated user. Understanding that is what allows us to write good, usable software for "normal" people.
GeneralMayhem 13y ago
This argument comes up in every conversation about non-computer people, and I don't buy it. I don't know anything about how my car works, and I wouldn't be able to get a Formula 1 car out of the driveway, but I do know how to use it for ordinary tasks. Moreover, if my lack of knowledge got in the way of my everyday life, I would learn something and use that knowledge. The car equivalent of the sort of people the author is complaining about isn't you and me, it's someone who doesn't know where the steering wheel is and refuses to learn because all they need to know is gas pedal -> go forward, and the car should figure it out from there and/or is a Magical Voodoo Machine that they can't touch. In short: complete and willful ineptitude vs. mastery is a false dichotomy.
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  Maybe not that bad, but certainly someone that calls in for help every time they need the parking brake. On the same car, for years.
- eieio 13y ago
  But many of the things the author lists are not as basic as using a steering wheel. Why in the world would an average user need to care about when "www" should be in a url? Or even need to know when the term "download" is appropriate? Yeah, if you work with word and double-space things a lot you should know how to do that. But I haven't encountered many people who don't know how to double space. And yeah, at this point people should know how to google things. That's a little more problematic, but I rarely run into people who don't know how to use google at this point either. Some things on the list are important. A lot of things on the list are things that are minor annoyances that are likely similar to what my mechanic experiences when I try to describe my problem to him.
  - icebraining 13y ago
    Or even need to know when the term "download" is appropriate? If you use a word, shouldn't you know if it's appropriate?
fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
> I wonder if grilling enthusiasts write articles titled "Things People Believe About Grills" targeted at folks like the author. Oh boy, you wouldn't believe how serious some BBQ-ers can be. Back in college, an alumn loaned us (the Uni IEEE chapter) a very nice trailer-mounted smoker / grill setup, the kind used for serious business BBQ competitions. The owner was a great guy who had a great sense of humor, and told us all to have a good time. We didn't have a lot of money, so we bought only the necessities, you know, a dozen kegs of beer, condiments, ice, 47000 plastic cups, those cheap flimsy pre-stamped hamburger patties, hot dogs, and importantly, lighter fluid. So here we are, late on Friday night before the event (annual Uni traditional festival for no good reason), having a good time with our too-loud music, and typical responsible college student amounts of drinking. We've got a good crowd in our area. To keep the crowd enthralled, someone is shooting lighter fluid directly into the grill sending flames into the air. It was very popular with the crowd. Shortly after the flame stunt began, in rushes a troop of middle-aged BBQ dweebs with a fire extinguisher. Who immediately set about lecturing our "cooks" on how "real BBQ-ers" don't use lighter fluid because it "colors the flavor of the meat", or some such crap. We quickly confessed our thoughts that it was a likely a fruitless and unnecessary task to attempt to turn the discount-club paper-thin patties into anything resembling fine cuisine. They were unimpressed and after some more BBQ snobbery from them, and some appropriately disrespectful words from us, they retreated.
tuxmentat 13y ago
Actually, I find that ironically the cars is probably the most readily understood complex machine out there - at least here in US. Most people have very good grasp on the basic principles, usage and surprisingly in-depth knowledge of the internal workings of the vehicle. For example you can say something like "I'm having issues with my transmission" and most people (including those who don't drive or own cars) will have a pretty good idea of what you are talking about, what the symptoms are like and even where you can go to get it repaired and how long it may take and how much money it may cost. The simple fact that we frequently use car analogy to explain complex computer concepts just helps to reinforce this notion.

by eieio 13y ago

showsover 13y ago

But the difference is that you don't drive your car for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, years on end.

eieio 13y ago
Fair enough. I guess I'm just wary of articles like these because I think that nerds like me(and I'm assuming the author) have the tendency to put computers on this pedestal because we use them a lot and really really like them. It's not the end of the world when someone confuses memory with storage or thinks that www should go in front of everything. In fact, these days I'd argue that it's not hugely important for "normal" people to know either of those things. I'd say that the most important part of this article is about learning to use Google, which is a hugely important skill at this point. Misconceptions about viruses are annoying and sometimes very problematic. And backups are important. But I'd argue that just about everything else listed isn't hugely important. They're annoying misconceptions, sure. But that's about it. It's ok to be an unsophisticated user. Understanding that is what allows us to write good, usable software for "normal" people.

GeneralMayhem 13y ago

This argument comes up in every conversation about non-computer people, and I don't buy it. I don't know anything about how my car works, and I wouldn't be able to get a Formula 1 car out of the driveway, but I do know how to use it for ordinary tasks. Moreover, if my lack of knowledge got in the way of my everyday life, I would learn something and use that knowledge. The car equivalent of the sort of people the author is complaining about isn't you and me, it's someone who doesn't know where the steering wheel is and refuses to learn because all they need to know is gas pedal -> go forward, and the car should figure it out from there and/or is a Magical Voodoo Machine that they can't touch. In short: complete and willful ineptitude vs. mastery is a false dichotomy.

Dylan16807 13y ago
Maybe not that bad, but certainly someone that calls in for help every time they need the parking brake. On the same car, for years.
eieio 13y ago
But many of the things the author lists are not as basic as using a steering wheel. Why in the world would an average user need to care about when "www" should be in a url? Or even need to know when the term "download" is appropriate? Yeah, if you work with word and double-space things a lot you should know how to do that. But I haven't encountered many people who don't know how to double space. And yeah, at this point people should know how to google things. That's a little more problematic, but I rarely run into people who don't know how to use google at this point either. Some things on the list are important. A lot of things on the list are things that are minor annoyances that are likely similar to what my mechanic experiences when I try to describe my problem to him.
- icebraining 13y ago
  Or even need to know when the term "download" is appropriate? If you use a word, shouldn't you know if it's appropriate?

fnordfnordfnord 13y ago

> I wonder if grilling enthusiasts write articles titled "Things People Believe About Grills" targeted at folks like the author. Oh boy, you wouldn't believe how serious some BBQ-ers can be. Back in college, an alumn loaned us (the Uni IEEE chapter) a very nice trailer-mounted smoker / grill setup, the kind used for serious business BBQ competitions. The owner was a great guy who had a great sense of humor, and told us all to have a good time. We didn't have a lot of money, so we bought only the necessities, you know, a dozen kegs of beer, condiments, ice, 47000 plastic cups, those cheap flimsy pre-stamped hamburger patties, hot dogs, and importantly, lighter fluid. So here we are, late on Friday night before the event (annual Uni traditional festival for no good reason), having a good time with our too-loud music, and typical responsible college student amounts of drinking. We've got a good crowd in our area. To keep the crowd enthralled, someone is shooting lighter fluid directly into the grill sending flames into the air. It was very popular with the crowd. Shortly after the flame stunt began, in rushes a troop of middle-aged BBQ dweebs with a fire extinguisher. Who immediately set about lecturing our "cooks" on how "real BBQ-ers" don't use lighter fluid because it "colors the flavor of the meat", or some such crap. We quickly confessed our thoughts that it was a likely a fruitless and unnecessary task to attempt to turn the discount-club paper-thin patties into anything resembling fine cuisine. They were unimpressed and after some more BBQ snobbery from them, and some appropriately disrespectful words from us, they retreated.

tuxmentat 13y ago

Actually, I find that ironically the cars is probably the most readily understood complex machine out there - at least here in US. Most people have very good grasp on the basic principles, usage and surprisingly in-depth knowledge of the internal workings of the vehicle. For example you can say something like "I'm having issues with my transmission" and most people (including those who don't drive or own cars) will have a pretty good idea of what you are talking about, what the symptoms are like and even where you can go to get it repaired and how long it may take and how much money it may cost. The simple fact that we frequently use car analogy to explain complex computer concepts just helps to reinforce this notion.