5 ms·

Sadly, this is a typical thing that goes on in the Android User development community. Lots of casual attitudes by hobbyists that modify the Linux Kernel and ra

Sadly, this is a typical thing that goes on in the Android User development community. Lots of casual attitudes by hobbyists that modify the Linux Kernel and rattle off some sort of excuse for not posting their sources while distributing binary copies. Others end up "relicensing" similar to the guy on github, thinking that because they changed a few lines of code, they can claim to own the license to the software now. I'd say that is probably much more prevalent since there's a general assumption by many that the license most Android based software uses, Apache 2.0 means "do whatever you want". Even worse is the fact that many users in the community are also quick to defend them blindly because they know little of development and why following licenses matter (even after all the facts are laid out and explained).

Svip 13y ago
> Others end up "relicensing" similar to the guy on github, [...] Hmmm... https://github.com/rxrz/exfat-nofuse/issues/5#issuecomment-21393678 https://github.com/rxrz/exfat-nofuse/issues/5#issuecomment-2... : > And I don't need any permissions from anybody, I'm a big girl. Fun fact: Females also do stupid stuff.
- vog 13y ago
  Among all aspects of that discussion, the author's gender is about the most uninteresting detail. "Hackers should be judged by their hacking, not criteria such as degrees, age, race, sex, or position."
  - yareally 13y ago
    Agreed. I didn't even take the time to find out what their gender was since it's not any related issue. "Guy" was just used in a generic sense[1]. [1] http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/generic-singular-pronouns?page=all http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/generic-s...
    - Svip 13y ago
      I apologise, I am not familiar enough with the usage of 'guy' to know it is generic in singular (I know it is in plural).
      - yareally 13y ago
        No worries :). I just think of it as another way of saying "dude".
        ars 13y ago
        Bad example because officially dude is also male. The female is dudine, dudette, or dudess. But like like guy, dude because gender neutral in common speech.
        king_jester 13y ago
        Just to nitpick, guy and dude are not gender neutral, they just happened to be heavily used by the community in general, mostly because people assume users are men by default.
        Dylan16807 13y ago
        Speak for yourself. A lot of people use it as a real gender neutral.
        brewski 13y ago
        For a different point of view see http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html
        Dylan16807 13y ago
        There are two related but subtly different uses here. A word like 'he' is a default, which can lead to problematic implications. A word like 'guy', to some people, is a true neutral, implying gender no more than the word 'somebody'. Even if we were talking about 'he', your link would be out of place. Calling out the use of a gendered default as bad is not in fact another point of view on whether it is the default.
- skore 13y ago
  > Fun fact: Females also do stupid stuff. Nah, pretty sure the "I'm a big girl" is just fratboy posturing. Otherwise I agree with the commenter next to me: Breathtaking inanity is the interesting aspect here, not gender.
- dbaupp 13y ago
  > I'm a big girl I believe the key part of this is the "I'm a big X" pattern (i.e. "I'm an adult"), not that the person is female.
jlgreco 13y ago
The last point you raise is one of the reasons that I think the drive to bring as many "proverbial grandmothers" to Linux presents a very serious concern. Imagine if Linux distros started getting treated like Android does? Android got those legions of "regular" users and participants that everybody seems to want and it is not a pretty scene because of it.
- yareally 13y ago
  Great point. I've had more than one conversation with friends in the Android community where we try to understand exactly why the Android development community is as toxic as it is at times. Part of it definitely has to do with the end users getting too close to those doing the development and the result is chaos. It ends with users totally disrespecting real developers--stirring up unnecessary drama and fanboyism. Then there's users that compiled Android (or worse, added a few apps into a ROM by opening it in 7zip) and are suddenly an Android development expert (and users that believe it by defending them and donating money). I'm just glad that most other development communities on the web are much more civil (though I'm sure there's outliers). Even with Ubuntu's rise in popularity, it comes nowhere close to matching the appalling behavior I've witnessed with Android. I've seen people belittled by users for simply trying to post an honest bug report to a developer in their forum thread. Though with the way users spam up those threads with offtopic discussion, one is just as likely to have their bug report missed/ignored.
  - pnathan 13y ago
    > Part of it definitely has to do with the end users getting too close to those doing the development and the result is chaos. I don't understand what you mean. Shouldn't a close relationship between developers and users be a key goal in development?
    - jevinskie 13y ago
      I think the point is that the relationship isn't getting useful work done. In a ROM thread on XDA developers there are no good bug reports with reproductions, expected results, etc. It is a bunch of people saying "this doesn't work" and "no of course it should work for you because it works on my phone" and especially off-the-cuff performance evaluations ("much smoother, no stuttering or lag"). It is difficult to figure out who knows their shit and who is just bullshitting.

Svip 13y ago

> Others end up "relicensing" similar to the guy on github, [...] Hmmm... https://github.com/rxrz/exfat-nofuse/issues/5#issuecomment-21393678 https://github.com/rxrz/exfat-nofuse/issues/5#issuecomment-2... : > And I don't need any permissions from anybody, I'm a big girl. Fun fact: Females also do stupid stuff.

vog 13y ago
Among all aspects of that discussion, the author's gender is about the most uninteresting detail. "Hackers should be judged by their hacking, not criteria such as degrees, age, race, sex, or position."
- yareally 13y ago
  Agreed. I didn't even take the time to find out what their gender was since it's not any related issue. "Guy" was just used in a generic sense[1]. [1] http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/generic-singular-pronouns?page=all http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/generic-s...
  - Svip 13y ago
    I apologise, I am not familiar enough with the usage of 'guy' to know it is generic in singular (I know it is in plural).
    - yareally 13y ago
      No worries :). I just think of it as another way of saying "dude".
      - ars 13y ago
        Bad example because officially dude is also male. The female is dudine, dudette, or dudess. But like like guy, dude because gender neutral in common speech.
        king_jester 13y ago
        Just to nitpick, guy and dude are not gender neutral, they just happened to be heavily used by the community in general, mostly because people assume users are men by default.
        Dylan16807 13y ago
        Speak for yourself. A lot of people use it as a real gender neutral.
        brewski 13y ago
        For a different point of view see http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html
        Dylan16807 13y ago
        There are two related but subtly different uses here. A word like 'he' is a default, which can lead to problematic implications. A word like 'guy', to some people, is a true neutral, implying gender no more than the word 'somebody'. Even if we were talking about 'he', your link would be out of place. Calling out the use of a gendered default as bad is not in fact another point of view on whether it is the default.
skore 13y ago
> Fun fact: Females also do stupid stuff. Nah, pretty sure the "I'm a big girl" is just fratboy posturing. Otherwise I agree with the commenter next to me: Breathtaking inanity is the interesting aspect here, not gender.
dbaupp 13y ago
> I'm a big girl I believe the key part of this is the "I'm a big X" pattern (i.e. "I'm an adult"), not that the person is female.

jlgreco 13y ago

The last point you raise is one of the reasons that I think the drive to bring as many "proverbial grandmothers" to Linux presents a very serious concern. Imagine if Linux distros started getting treated like Android does? Android got those legions of "regular" users and participants that everybody seems to want and it is not a pretty scene because of it.

yareally 13y ago
Great point. I've had more than one conversation with friends in the Android community where we try to understand exactly why the Android development community is as toxic as it is at times. Part of it definitely has to do with the end users getting too close to those doing the development and the result is chaos. It ends with users totally disrespecting real developers--stirring up unnecessary drama and fanboyism. Then there's users that compiled Android (or worse, added a few apps into a ROM by opening it in 7zip) and are suddenly an Android development expert (and users that believe it by defending them and donating money). I'm just glad that most other development communities on the web are much more civil (though I'm sure there's outliers). Even with Ubuntu's rise in popularity, it comes nowhere close to matching the appalling behavior I've witnessed with Android. I've seen people belittled by users for simply trying to post an honest bug report to a developer in their forum thread. Though with the way users spam up those threads with offtopic discussion, one is just as likely to have their bug report missed/ignored.
- pnathan 13y ago
  > Part of it definitely has to do with the end users getting too close to those doing the development and the result is chaos. I don't understand what you mean. Shouldn't a close relationship between developers and users be a key goal in development?
  - jevinskie 13y ago
    I think the point is that the relationship isn't getting useful work done. In a ROM thread on XDA developers there are no good bug reports with reproductions, expected results, etc. It is a bunch of people saying "this doesn't work" and "no of course it should work for you because it works on my phone" and especially off-the-cuff performance evaluations ("much smoother, no stuttering or lag"). It is difficult to figure out who knows their shit and who is just bullshitting.