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What a stupid article. What's with the sudden rash of "Don't Go to College" articles? It is a WELL proven fact that people with college degrees earn far more

What a stupid article. What's with the sudden rash of "Don't Go to College" articles? It is a WELL proven fact that people with college degrees earn far more during their lifetimes than those without degrees. See the second page of this report for a great graph: http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/p23-210.pdf

sp332 17y ago
A bunch of disaffected college students just got out for the summer, and have more time to read and submit articles here.
swombat 17y ago
It's not all that sudden... they keep surfacing every once in a while it seems.
gustavo_duarte 17y ago
Not to mention, you know, the bit about 'education' and 'refining your mind', which is supposed to be the purpose of the whole thing.
lethain 17y ago
What that reports shows is that historically college has paid off, but even with adjustment for inflation the cost of college has increased by 2.5 times over the past 70 years ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition has a great chart showing how that varies across institutions, in some schools the adjusted increase is much lower). Combined with the increased percentage of Americans attending college (from <%5 circa 1940 to nearly 30% now, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Educational_attainment.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Educational_attainment.jpg), I think it's disingenuous to rely on data based on the relative success of those who attended college 40 or 50 year s ago to someone who is graduating from college today. College is more expensive and having a degree is much more common. Because of these factors, although I do think lifetime wage for college graduates will continue to outpace non-graduates, I also think that the relative payoff will decrease. Apologies for over-reliance on wikipedia, it is remarkably hard to find quality sources in a minute or two. ;)
- abyssknight 17y ago
  My bachelors degree was paid for by the Florida lottery, and the school paid me an extra $8,000 just to choose them. The cost of college is relative to the effort you put in prior to applying. I honestly enjoyed college, and the experience I gained by going through it was invaluable. I didn't party. I didn't drink. I went to class every day, worked at a small web development shop when I wasn't in class, and I took it all in. I graduated on time, and with the knowledge that it had all been well worth it. That was college for me. College is what you make of it. If you go into it hating the establishment, you're going to drop out. The school I went to had a foundation exam for CS students after their first 2 years. Basically, it filters out those who knew the material (or were passionate enough to study and take it 3 times, yes that was me) and those who were just doing the degree for a piece of paper. It works.
smanek 17y ago
That isn't fair - there is selection bias. You have to compare people who were accepted to college and choose not to go to those who choose to go. Then, subtract the opportunity cost of the money the college goers paid (i.e., cost * expected ROI in some other endeavor) before comparing lifetime earnings. The studies I've seen to that for a lot of people (mediocre students, no-name school, etc) there is relatively little benefit to attending college.
- ShabbyDoo 17y ago
  The study is harder than that. You have to take a sampling of those accepted to college and force a percentage of them to skip out. The "educated people make more money, therefore get an education" arguments annoy me. There's rarely a mention that causation is presumed.
  - smanek 17y ago
    Ideally yes - but we can't (ethically) do that ;-)
jimbokun 17y ago
1. That also includes older workers who got their degrees when a smaller percentage of the population went to college. Now that a much higher percentage of young people are getting degrees, will there still be enough demand to keep wages for degree holders high, relative to the increased supply of workers with those degrees? 2. If you include debt, cost of servicing that debt, opportunity cost of the years needed for the degree, increasing tuition and fees, and reliance on credit cards to make ends meet, with the finance charges and exploding interest rates credit cards entail, surely at some point all of the increased lifetime earnings are completely offset? Especially taking into account the increased number of degree holders in the marketplace. It may very well still be worthwhile to get a degree. But the decision is not as clear as it once was.
noodle 17y ago
i don't think that in this case, the language that the guy is using is saying "don't go to college", he's saying "don't go to a standard 4 year". not everyone should go to a standard 4 year university. some people are better off in a trade school or a 2 year tech school. or, the military where they'll train you well to do some specific things. i also think that associates degrees vary in success and pull reasonably more weight than the linked report shows they do. i think that this should be the takeaway.
gaius 17y ago
Earned not will earn. And a degree in what? Here in the UK the govt. has the goal of getting 50% of people to have some sort of degree. When a degree in media studies from an ex-poly is the norm, what then? The brutal truth is if you don't get into a Russell Group university then you would be better off going straight into the job market at 18. Don't shoot the messenger.

sp332 17y ago

A bunch of disaffected college students just got out for the summer, and have more time to read and submit articles here.

swombat 17y ago

It's not all that sudden... they keep surfacing every once in a while it seems.

gustavo_duarte 17y ago

Not to mention, you know, the bit about 'education' and 'refining your mind', which is supposed to be the purpose of the whole thing.

lethain 17y ago

What that reports shows is that historically college has paid off, but even with adjustment for inflation the cost of college has increased by 2.5 times over the past 70 years ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/College_tuition has a great chart showing how that varies across institutions, in some schools the adjusted increase is much lower). Combined with the increased percentage of Americans attending college (from <%5 circa 1940 to nearly 30% now, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Educational_attainment.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Educational_attainment.jpg), I think it's disingenuous to rely on data based on the relative success of those who attended college 40 or 50 year s ago to someone who is graduating from college today. College is more expensive and having a degree is much more common. Because of these factors, although I do think lifetime wage for college graduates will continue to outpace non-graduates, I also think that the relative payoff will decrease. Apologies for over-reliance on wikipedia, it is remarkably hard to find quality sources in a minute or two. ;)

abyssknight 17y ago
My bachelors degree was paid for by the Florida lottery, and the school paid me an extra $8,000 just to choose them. The cost of college is relative to the effort you put in prior to applying. I honestly enjoyed college, and the experience I gained by going through it was invaluable. I didn't party. I didn't drink. I went to class every day, worked at a small web development shop when I wasn't in class, and I took it all in. I graduated on time, and with the knowledge that it had all been well worth it. That was college for me. College is what you make of it. If you go into it hating the establishment, you're going to drop out. The school I went to had a foundation exam for CS students after their first 2 years. Basically, it filters out those who knew the material (or were passionate enough to study and take it 3 times, yes that was me) and those who were just doing the degree for a piece of paper. It works.

smanek 17y ago

That isn't fair - there is selection bias. You have to compare people who were accepted to college and choose not to go to those who choose to go. Then, subtract the opportunity cost of the money the college goers paid (i.e., cost * expected ROI in some other endeavor) before comparing lifetime earnings. The studies I've seen to that for a lot of people (mediocre students, no-name school, etc) there is relatively little benefit to attending college.

ShabbyDoo 17y ago
The study is harder than that. You have to take a sampling of those accepted to college and force a percentage of them to skip out. The "educated people make more money, therefore get an education" arguments annoy me. There's rarely a mention that causation is presumed.
- smanek 17y ago
  Ideally yes - but we can't (ethically) do that ;-)

jimbokun 17y ago

1. That also includes older workers who got their degrees when a smaller percentage of the population went to college. Now that a much higher percentage of young people are getting degrees, will there still be enough demand to keep wages for degree holders high, relative to the increased supply of workers with those degrees? 2. If you include debt, cost of servicing that debt, opportunity cost of the years needed for the degree, increasing tuition and fees, and reliance on credit cards to make ends meet, with the finance charges and exploding interest rates credit cards entail, surely at some point all of the increased lifetime earnings are completely offset? Especially taking into account the increased number of degree holders in the marketplace. It may very well still be worthwhile to get a degree. But the decision is not as clear as it once was.

noodle 17y ago

i don't think that in this case, the language that the guy is using is saying "don't go to college", he's saying "don't go to a standard 4 year". not everyone should go to a standard 4 year university. some people are better off in a trade school or a 2 year tech school. or, the military where they'll train you well to do some specific things. i also think that associates degrees vary in success and pull reasonably more weight than the linked report shows they do. i think that this should be the takeaway.

gaius 17y ago

Earned not will earn. And a degree in what? Here in the UK the govt. has the goal of getting 50% of people to have some sort of degree. When a degree in media studies from an ex-poly is the norm, what then? The brutal truth is if you don't get into a Russell Group university then you would be better off going straight into the job market at 18. Don't shoot the messenger.