5 ms·

At the point when they started asking about stuff you didn't know about I would have invoked my right to a lawyer.

cortesoft 13y ago
Yes... as I said, I know much better now. Of course, invoking my right to a lawyer may have prolonged my experience. Whether the increased risk of being in trouble by talking was greater than the increased time to resolve the incident if I requested a lawyer would have been a tough call to make.
- Wingman4l7 13y ago
  Not to mention the whole "oh, you're asking for a lawyer, an innocent person would just talk to us, you must be our guy" bit.
  - quantumpotato_ 13y ago
    Which doesn't go so well in court. Oh wait.. forceful decryption of private keys..
    - Wingman4l7 13y ago
      Well, supposedly TrueCrypt has plausible deniability, but I don't know if that's ever actually been tested in practice.
      - cortesoft 13y ago
        It would be impossible to know if it has ever been utilized in practice.
        Wingman4l7 13y ago
        Well, technically, yes. However, if we had a court case where the prosecutor thought the defendant had a key for some encrypted data, and they claimed that they didn't, and they weren't thrown in jail for "refusing to divulge a key to the data that we totally know they have", then I might call that a theoretical win for the plausible deniability "defense".
        cortesoft 13y ago
        The way the truecrypt hidden volume works, the defendant WOULD give up the key (it would just be the key for the REGULAR encrypted volume, not the hidden one) The prosecution would get the key, use it to decrypt the drive, see a bunch of files, and assume the defendant had complied and given them the correct key. What they wouldn't know is that there is also a SECOND encrypted volume inside the one they decrypted. There is actually no way for them to know if there is this second volume or not. http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/hidden-volume http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/hidden-volume If there were any news reports on it, the reports would just say "Defendant X gives up encryption key; no incriminating data found"
uptown 13y ago
...which now means you need to spend money to protect yourself against a situation where you've done nothing wrong.
- Wingman4l7 13y ago
  A lawyer might be provided pro bono -- but I completely agree with the point you're trying to make.
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    Public defenders are overworked and often unable to mount a sufficient defense.
    - Wingman4l7 13y ago
      Oh, I'm well aware.
- coldtea 13y ago
  Plus is some cases (and countries) they treat you worse, and take advantage of loop holes to delay you seeing a lawyer as much as they can, even like several days or so.
dredmorbius 13y ago
Invoking your right to remain silent is sufficient. Telling the police to direct further inquiries to an attorney doesn't actually necessitate retaining one until they make additional inquiries. One way to view this is upping the ante. You've made clear that you know your rights, and that they're not going to be able to use you as an easy source. Of course, if they call your bluff, it's helpful to be able to produce said attorney.

Yes... as I said, I know much better now. Of course, invoking my right to a lawyer may have prolonged my experience. Whether the increased risk of being in trouble by talking was greater than the increased time to resolve the incident if I requested a lawyer would have been a tough call to make.

Wingman4l7 13y ago
Not to mention the whole "oh, you're asking for a lawyer, an innocent person would just talk to us, you must be our guy" bit.
- quantumpotato_ 13y ago
  Which doesn't go so well in court. Oh wait.. forceful decryption of private keys..
  - Wingman4l7 13y ago
    Well, supposedly TrueCrypt has plausible deniability, but I don't know if that's ever actually been tested in practice.
    - cortesoft 13y ago
      It would be impossible to know if it has ever been utilized in practice.
      - Wingman4l7 13y ago
        Well, technically, yes. However, if we had a court case where the prosecutor thought the defendant had a key for some encrypted data, and they claimed that they didn't, and they weren't thrown in jail for "refusing to divulge a key to the data that we totally know they have", then I might call that a theoretical win for the plausible deniability "defense".
        cortesoft 13y ago
        The way the truecrypt hidden volume works, the defendant WOULD give up the key (it would just be the key for the REGULAR encrypted volume, not the hidden one) The prosecution would get the key, use it to decrypt the drive, see a bunch of files, and assume the defendant had complied and given them the correct key. What they wouldn't know is that there is also a SECOND encrypted volume inside the one they decrypted. There is actually no way for them to know if there is this second volume or not. http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/hidden-volume http://www.truecrypt.org/docs/hidden-volume If there were any news reports on it, the reports would just say "Defendant X gives up encryption key; no incriminating data found"

uptown 13y ago

...which now means you need to spend money to protect yourself against a situation where you've done nothing wrong.

Wingman4l7 13y ago
A lawyer might be provided pro bono -- but I completely agree with the point you're trying to make.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  Public defenders are overworked and often unable to mount a sufficient defense.
  - Wingman4l7 13y ago
    Oh, I'm well aware.
coldtea 13y ago
Plus is some cases (and countries) they treat you worse, and take advantage of loop holes to delay you seeing a lawyer as much as they can, even like several days or so.

dredmorbius 13y ago

Invoking your right to remain silent is sufficient. Telling the police to direct further inquiries to an attorney doesn't actually necessitate retaining one until they make additional inquiries. One way to view this is upping the ante. You've made clear that you know your rights, and that they're not going to be able to use you as an easy source. Of course, if they call your bluff, it's helpful to be able to produce said attorney.