6 ms·

And without the referral link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002STNBRK http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002STNBRK

by TezzellEnt 13y ago

davidw 13y ago
God forbid I should get a few cents for recommending a good book to a community I participate in.
- TezzellEnt 13y ago
  While ycombinator does not have a policy of posting affiliate/referral links (that I know of), usually forums explicitly forbid this practice. On the forums that do allow it, typical etiquette is to notify the reader of a posted referral link, and also give them the choice of a non-affiliate link - and then let them decide.
  - davidw 13y ago
    Here, we're capitalists - we believe in startups, and are not philosophically opposed to making money. If someone is spamming this site with referral links, they should be dealt with harshly and kicked out. Otherwise, if you don't like a book recommendation you can downvote. I don't post books I don't think are interesting, and only where appropriate - a few cents are not worth it to me to appear coming across as a shill. But I do enjoy receiving a bit of money to reinvest in more books.
    - saraid216 13y ago
      > Here, we're capitalists - we believe in startups, and are not philosophically opposed to making money. You're conflating a bunch of disparate ideas with this sentence. HN is not a forum for making you money. That is not its purpose. You are being asked to not use it for that purpose. Taking offense at such a request is, in my opinion, a fairly black mark against your sincerity.
      - davidw 13y ago
        What I take offense at is this idea that making money is bad. It's not. I'm providing something that some people find useful, and since in this particular instance, there happens to be a way to make a tiny bit off it to reinvest in more books, I'm not ashamed to do so. Making money is obviously - very, very obviously - not my primary use of this site. You know another thing people do here? We promote our own stuff that we worked hard to build. Other communities intensely dislike that, but we don't, as long as it's kept within reason.
        drostie 13y ago
        I think you're taking this as much more ideological than it is. When someone honks their car's horn at you, it's not because they have taken time to construct a reasoned analysis of the legal status of your behaviour -- it's usually because you did something which they did not expect. In some sense this is 'always right' with cars: a lot of traffic safety rides on our ability to safely expect what others will do, so if your actions are unexpected they are often unsafe. When TezzellEnt posted a new version of the link, he/she did so because that little referral token is a sort of egg on your shirt in precisely the same way; it's unexpected. It's not necessarily an "idea that making money is bad." Nobody has said anything like that (except you, to refute it, of course). Heck, part of why it's unclean has to do with domain separation: if the egg is on your fork, it is 'clean', but if it falls on your shirt then it magically becomes 'dirt'. The egg of course is chemically identical, but one of them appears in a domain where you don't expect it -- an otherwise blank shirt. Similarly rmrfrmrf's first complaint ("issues arise when the content you produce for this site is influenced by your desire to make money") is not a referendum on your contributions as a whole but a statement that "you're crossing two domains here, and if those domains cross too much then this site will not be a place which we enjoy frequenting." Because I haven't actually engaged the ideological side yet I might as well do that too. You're not just "getting money from Amazon" but also being co-opted into "advertising for Amazon" -- and, as you say, you were bought in this way for only a few cents. What you think of as a strength -- that you only make a tiny amount off of it -- is in some sense actually a weakness. acjohnson55 put this above as being "thought of as a shill."
    - rmrfrmrf 13y ago
      Except that issues arise when the content you produce for this site is influenced by your desire to make money. It's also ridiculous for you to complain when someone provides an alternative to your product -- that's what capitalism is all about!
      - davidw 13y ago
        > Except that issues arise when the content you produce for this site is influenced by your desire to make money. It isn't. I could see it being a problem for some people, hypothetically. If that problem arises, we can deal with it. > It's also ridiculous for you to complain when someone provides an alternative to your product -- that's what capitalism is all about! The "alternative" link means that Jeff Bezos pockets the few cents I would have made. To the actual end user, it makes no difference at all. There is no way I'd post those links if they actually ended up costing people here money.
        devcpp 13y ago
        >If that problem arises, we can deal with it. This problem has arised in nearly all the sites that I know that have ever tolerated it. Eventually, someone learns that it's allowed and exploits that. Actually, you're that person because that link sounded to me like a sales pitch, but I can't prove that this was your intention. In all cases, I'd rather prevent it from happening by disapproving it than "dealing with it" after the deed is done. >To the actual end user, it makes no difference at all. Bullshiiiiit. It makes the difference that this shit gets spammed all over the Internet eventually. Boo. (as a side note, you can't prove they'd have gone to Bezos rather than contribute to an Amazon commission decrease if no one used these referrals)
        davidw 13y ago
        > you're that person Did you read my past comments and actually judge how much "spamming" I'm doing prior to making accusatory statements like that? Let me make it easy for you: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=davidw https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=davidw > this shit In this case, "this shit" was a book I happened to read and enjoy and was highly relevant to the discussion at hand and decided to share with people here. They seem to have appreciated the link. I know I'm always on the lookout for good books to read myself, and have found more than a few via this site.
- acjohnson55 13y ago
  Regardless of whether making money is the objective the forum or whatever, I think the main point is that it's considered poor form by many. Is it really worth the 5 cents to be thought of as a shill?
- steveklabnik 13y ago
  And it's not even more expensive than the non-referral version. I've always found this total, absolute hatred of referral links to be pretty absurd. I KNOW YOU JUST RACKED UP THAT 30k KARMA TO EARN $$$ OFF OF HN ZOMG. _Especially_ on a site like this. Other posters here will freak out about how you're recommending something based on a financial incentive, but don't care about the myriad of other advertising they're bombarded with on a regular basis. It's simply about context. If most of your posts were spammy, and had affiliate links, I could understand it more. But this sub-thread is ridiculous.
- BrandonM 13y ago
  It's pretty ridiculous that this discussion devolved into a few people who have been here for 1.5 years or less telling someone who's been here for nearly 8 years that he's doing it wrong. I have no problem with affiliate links. I do have a problem with drawn-out, off-topic discussion. But that's probably expected in a submission about White Coke.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]

And without the referral link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002STNBRK http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002STNBRK

davidw 13y ago

God forbid I should get a few cents for recommending a good book to a community I participate in.

TezzellEnt 13y ago
While ycombinator does not have a policy of posting affiliate/referral links (that I know of), usually forums explicitly forbid this practice. On the forums that do allow it, typical etiquette is to notify the reader of a posted referral link, and also give them the choice of a non-affiliate link - and then let them decide.
- davidw 13y ago
  Here, we're capitalists - we believe in startups, and are not philosophically opposed to making money. If someone is spamming this site with referral links, they should be dealt with harshly and kicked out. Otherwise, if you don't like a book recommendation you can downvote. I don't post books I don't think are interesting, and only where appropriate - a few cents are not worth it to me to appear coming across as a shill. But I do enjoy receiving a bit of money to reinvest in more books.
  - saraid216 13y ago
    > Here, we're capitalists - we believe in startups, and are not philosophically opposed to making money. You're conflating a bunch of disparate ideas with this sentence. HN is not a forum for making you money. That is not its purpose. You are being asked to not use it for that purpose. Taking offense at such a request is, in my opinion, a fairly black mark against your sincerity.
    - davidw 13y ago
      What I take offense at is this idea that making money is bad. It's not. I'm providing something that some people find useful, and since in this particular instance, there happens to be a way to make a tiny bit off it to reinvest in more books, I'm not ashamed to do so. Making money is obviously - very, very obviously - not my primary use of this site. You know another thing people do here? We promote our own stuff that we worked hard to build. Other communities intensely dislike that, but we don't, as long as it's kept within reason.
      - drostie 13y ago
        I think you're taking this as much more ideological than it is. When someone honks their car's horn at you, it's not because they have taken time to construct a reasoned analysis of the legal status of your behaviour -- it's usually because you did something which they did not expect. In some sense this is 'always right' with cars: a lot of traffic safety rides on our ability to safely expect what others will do, so if your actions are unexpected they are often unsafe. When TezzellEnt posted a new version of the link, he/she did so because that little referral token is a sort of egg on your shirt in precisely the same way; it's unexpected. It's not necessarily an "idea that making money is bad." Nobody has said anything like that (except you, to refute it, of course). Heck, part of why it's unclean has to do with domain separation: if the egg is on your fork, it is 'clean', but if it falls on your shirt then it magically becomes 'dirt'. The egg of course is chemically identical, but one of them appears in a domain where you don't expect it -- an otherwise blank shirt. Similarly rmrfrmrf's first complaint ("issues arise when the content you produce for this site is influenced by your desire to make money") is not a referendum on your contributions as a whole but a statement that "you're crossing two domains here, and if those domains cross too much then this site will not be a place which we enjoy frequenting." Because I haven't actually engaged the ideological side yet I might as well do that too. You're not just "getting money from Amazon" but also being co-opted into "advertising for Amazon" -- and, as you say, you were bought in this way for only a few cents. What you think of as a strength -- that you only make a tiny amount off of it -- is in some sense actually a weakness. acjohnson55 put this above as being "thought of as a shill."
  - rmrfrmrf 13y ago
    Except that issues arise when the content you produce for this site is influenced by your desire to make money. It's also ridiculous for you to complain when someone provides an alternative to your product -- that's what capitalism is all about!
    - davidw 13y ago
      > Except that issues arise when the content you produce for this site is influenced by your desire to make money. It isn't. I could see it being a problem for some people, hypothetically. If that problem arises, we can deal with it. > It's also ridiculous for you to complain when someone provides an alternative to your product -- that's what capitalism is all about! The "alternative" link means that Jeff Bezos pockets the few cents I would have made. To the actual end user, it makes no difference at all. There is no way I'd post those links if they actually ended up costing people here money.
      - devcpp 13y ago
        >If that problem arises, we can deal with it. This problem has arised in nearly all the sites that I know that have ever tolerated it. Eventually, someone learns that it's allowed and exploits that. Actually, you're that person because that link sounded to me like a sales pitch, but I can't prove that this was your intention. In all cases, I'd rather prevent it from happening by disapproving it than "dealing with it" after the deed is done. >To the actual end user, it makes no difference at all. Bullshiiiiit. It makes the difference that this shit gets spammed all over the Internet eventually. Boo. (as a side note, you can't prove they'd have gone to Bezos rather than contribute to an Amazon commission decrease if no one used these referrals)
        davidw 13y ago
        > you're that person Did you read my past comments and actually judge how much "spamming" I'm doing prior to making accusatory statements like that? Let me make it easy for you: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=davidw https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=davidw > this shit In this case, "this shit" was a book I happened to read and enjoy and was highly relevant to the discussion at hand and decided to share with people here. They seem to have appreciated the link. I know I'm always on the lookout for good books to read myself, and have found more than a few via this site.
acjohnson55 13y ago
Regardless of whether making money is the objective the forum or whatever, I think the main point is that it's considered poor form by many. Is it really worth the 5 cents to be thought of as a shill?
steveklabnik 13y ago
And it's not even more expensive than the non-referral version. I've always found this total, absolute hatred of referral links to be pretty absurd. I KNOW YOU JUST RACKED UP THAT 30k KARMA TO EARN $$$ OFF OF HN ZOMG. _Especially_ on a site like this. Other posters here will freak out about how you're recommending something based on a financial incentive, but don't care about the myriad of other advertising they're bombarded with on a regular basis. It's simply about context. If most of your posts were spammy, and had affiliate links, I could understand it more. But this sub-thread is ridiculous.
BrandonM 13y ago
It's pretty ridiculous that this discussion devolved into a few people who have been here for 1.5 years or less telling someone who's been here for nearly 8 years that he's doing it wrong. I have no problem with affiliate links. I do have a problem with drawn-out, off-topic discussion. But that's probably expected in a submission about White Coke.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]