6 ms·

100% time

191 points by lemming 13y ago

veesahni 13y ago
Great post! I have much of the same motivations, which keeps me persevering towards my goals.
rlu 13y ago
I admire (and in some ways totally agree with/follow) the message. Having said that, I don't really think that you can say that with his "100% time" he can still achieve what Google employees once did during 20% time. My understanding is that Google now (and for a while) has not actually continued to uphold the 20% tradition - and that was expected with company growth - but back when it did, the idea was that you could spend 20% of your time to build your own side project using Google resources and while getting paid by Google. Maybe it would become super popular and be a 'real product' some day. With "100% time" you certainly cannot legally do this. I can't go to work and devote some time to some side project using my company's resources and while getting paid to be doing other work. Sure, I could put in "100% time" into doing it, but it would be illegal. Like I said, I like the message, but mentioning 20% time seems wrong since you can't compare the two. In my opinion, anyways.
- biot 13y ago
  If you quit your job and have a profitable, self-sustaining business there's nothing illegal about spending your time in the pursuit of any lawful activity.
- sillysaurus 13y ago
  With "100% time" you certainly cannot legally do this. I can't go to work and devote some time to some side project using my company's resources and while getting paid to be doing other work. Sure, I could put in "100% time" into doing it, but it would be illegal. It's worth noting that if every developer believed this, then Python wouldn't exist, because Python was one such project.
  - VintageCool 13y ago
    Python is not an appropriate example. Guido van Rossum started working on python in the late 80s while employed by a computer science research center in Europe, then continued working on it while employed by a computer science research in the United States. He didn't start working at Google (working 50% on python) until 2005.
    - sillysaurus 13y ago
      continued working on it while employed by a computer science research in the United States I was referring to this specifically, not his time at Google. His employer didn't realize he was working on Python.
      - nitrogen 13y ago
        His employer didn't realize he was working on Python. That sounds like a fascinating story, but I'm not quite sure what to search for to find it. Do you have a link, by chance?
        jliechti1 13y ago
        Check out his talk here, he talks about that and much more: "Guido van Rossum on the History of Python": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugqu10JV7dk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugqu10JV7dk
      - roel_v 13y ago
        How many employers at universities have any idea about what their employees are doing beyond 'something with computers' or 'something with microbes' ? (exaggeration - but not a whole lot, in academia by definition most people are not in a position to understand what others are doing because what they are doing is supposed to be cutting edge)
- mathgladiator 13y ago
  In terms of legality, it really depends on what kind of covenants you went into. The 20% thing at Google is currently a marketing lie, and now Google is very much so a "team dependent" environment. That is, 20% is only allowed based on your team and the politics around your group. (based on several current/former google employers that I've talked to...)
  - magicalist 13y ago
    > The 20% thing at Google is currently a marketing lie There was a thread recently where some googlers said the opposite. The main thing I've heard is that you have to actually assert yourself and take the 20% time, it's not going to be set aside for you. Edit: this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5982333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5982333
    - s_husso 13y ago
      Sadly, I think mostly in the BigCorp world, you always have to take time aside to learn new stuff (or read HN etc). Everybody knows that no one works 8h/day doing real work. Sometimes taking time for learning is frowned upon (the "bad companies" out there) but mostly it is up to you to take the time. I've never heard any of my (ex) bosses in BigCorp say that taking time from daily work to learn is not permitted. Of course it would be cool to have the 20% stated by the management, but I don't see that happening. Mostly they leave it up to you to take the 20% from the daily work.
    - qwerta 13y ago
      If you already work 50 hours a week, I am sure they will happily allow additional 10 hours for your hobbies :-)
    - mathgladiator 13y ago
      > some googlers said the opposite this makes it a team dependent thing. The other thing is politics, "oh, we are behind schedule, yet that one guy doing his 20%..." combined with stack rankings is a downward spiral. Now, if you can assert yourself and back up your assertions, then many other places will enable you to do what you want if it's directly related to the success of the business.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >With "100% time" you certainly cannot legally do this. I can't go to work and devote some time to some side project using my company's resources and while getting paid to be doing other work. Sure, I could put in "100% time" into doing it, but it would be illegal. You missed his point. His 100% time is not like the 80% expanded. It's like the 20% expanded. I.e instead of something like Google paying him to devote 20% to extra stuff he likes, he choose to work 100% of his time in stuff he likes, and pay himself with that.
- NateDad 13y ago
  You have an unusual definition of legality. Would it get you fired? Yes. Would it get you in jail? Umm... no. Slacking off is not against the law :)
- cmiles74 13y ago
  I believe the author works for himself, how he spends his time (i.e. on R&D, consulting, or vacation) is entirely up to him.
zaidf 13y ago
100% time means that I choose what to care about, and then dedicate all my energy to making that choice have impact There isn't a lot of difference between 100% time and the concept of 80-20. You are interpreting the 80% time almost like slavery while making it seem like your 100% time provides complete freedom. I bet the reality is in between. The 80% time is still spent working for a company you're choosing to work for, often on projects you're choosing to work on and often work that you're enjoying. Meanwhile, even when you have the freedom to dedicate 100% of your life on whatever you'd like, you're still compelled to decide what to prioritize and what to turn down because of a lack of time.
- coffeemug 13y ago
  I run a business. In theory I have 100% time. In practice, I still have to choose to do grunt work 80% of the time (or more) if I want my business to succeed. You can redefine and reshuffle the numbers, but ultimately the work that needs to get done needs to get done. We designed our company in such a way that to some degree everyone has 100% time. We get together and choose priorities as a group, and then everyone can spend their time as they wish, as long as the goals we agreed on as a team are met. People still choose to do grunt work, since they realize it needs to get done for the company to succeed. There is no way to escape that. I think that ultimately, it's a matter of having the choice that makes a difference between fulfillment and misery. But even if you can choose what to work on, you still have to do unpleasant work at least some of the time.
  - cemerick 13y ago
    For sure, there are times when certain things simply have to get done. I didn't talk about that side of things simply because it would have diluted the message, and I figured that it was a given. However, contrary to what the GP says, 100% time (at least, my personal experience) bears little to no resemblance to the 80/20 split found in many workplaces. I don't know what the split actually shakes out to in my case, but short of allowing random HNers to surveil me (as tantalizing a notion as that may be :-P), everyone will just have to take me at my word that what I'm talking about isn't some sugar-coated notion of "it feels like I'm not working because I love my work so much".
Pavan_ 13y ago
100% time idea can only be possible in a start up company. If you consider any big corporate company, they don't even allow 10% time policy. This makes an engineer just another labor.
jaimebuelta 13y ago
Not sure about this. 20% time put some boundaries, and marks that you should be doing something different. It can be typically abused (hey, I'm supposed to have 20% for "other projects", but I have a deadline, so I'll use it for the "regular work"), but at least there is a line in the sand saying: "This is clearly time for OTHER STUFF". Your manager can say to you "hey, it's friday so you should be leaving this alone and do alternative projects" 100% sounds great, but does not define anything, so it's extremely easy to fall into "I have a lot of work, I can move to other stuff when the workload goes down". Of course, workload never goes down...
- cemerick 13y ago
  (Author here.) I agree that 100% time does not define anything. That is definitional. ;-) I'm "the boss" of the business, so I'm pretty well in control of what gets done and what doesn't. The whole thing requires a great deal of self-control and psychological awareness…though I'd suggest that without that, the business that makes the whole thing possible in the first place probably wouldn't exist.
davidw 13y ago
This sums up very nicely why I'm interested in building a company. It's not something I'm a 'natural' at (I'm not a great programmer, but I feel very at home with it), and I don't care about being rich, I just want time and freedom. Even with the small amount of money I've made with LiberWriter, I've tasted some of that decoupling he talks about - it's an awesome feeling when someone signs up, asks a few questions to our support team, and has their book done without me lifting a finger!
petercooper 13y ago
I'm doing something similar. I sold the technology of my (very) small startup in 2007 and had enough to stop "working" and putz around for a few years. I had no aim but kept trying whatever took my fancy. Eventually, something clicked as being in demand, profitable, and something I enjoyed doing. That's now my new business and I try to optimize so that at least 80% of the work is something I enjoy doing (and try to outsource anything that I don't!) Without that initial runway, however, I'd never have done it and this idea of having some extended time off or having a healthy pillow of cash to cushion a potential fall seems to be a common element of many stories like this.
- cemerick 13y ago
  I've not had an exit (threading that needle with a small software product business seems to be particularly challenging), but I hope I've been able to accomplish something similar in terms of searching for the next best thing. I think I've found it, but only time will tell; at the very least, I feel like I've found something like a "life's work" worth thinking about in those terms, so that's something... Thanks for sharing! :-)
cemerick 13y ago
Author here. While I appreciate the reads, I am even more glad for the amusement provided by various comments about how I'm confused about what "100% time" means (since, AFAIK, the post is where the term was first used outside of private conversations with friends of mine), or that it's potentially illegal, or that it's really just the typical 80/20 split and I can't tell the difference. Cheers! :-D Snark aside, Craig Andera asked me about the post on a recent Relevance podcast, and we talked about it and matters related to 100% time for a good stretch: http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/2013/05/14/chas-emerick-mostly-lazy-podcast-episode-031 http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/2013/05/14/chas-emerick-mostl...
- furyofantares 13y ago
  > since, AFAIK, the post is where the term was first used outside of private conversations with friends of mine I believe the term is used in the Valve employees handbook
  - cemerick 13y ago
    It's close (from http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/Valve_Handbook_LowRes.pdf http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/Valve_Handbook_LowRes.p...): We’ve heard that other companies have people allocate a percentage of their time to self-directed projects. At Valve, that percentage is 100. I definitely don't claim any originality in the concept. The pithy, perhaps eye-roll-worthy phrasing, maybe. ;-)
    - loumf 13y ago
      Didn't I just read on HN that the Valve thing was BS? http://www.develop-online.net/news/44746/Valves-perfect-hiring-hierarchy-has-hidden-management-clique-like-High-School http://www.develop-online.net/news/44746/Valves-perfect-hiri... I know Chas fairly well, and I'm reasonably sure this isn't what he was talking about.
      - cemerick 13y ago
        Yes, that reply was only regarding the particular phrase "100% time", and the very broad concept of self-directed work.
jimhefferon 13y ago
Trapped my back button.

191 points by lemming 13y ago

Great post! I have much of the same motivations, which keeps me persevering towards my goals.

rlu 13y ago

I admire (and in some ways totally agree with/follow) the message. Having said that, I don't really think that you can say that with his "100% time" he can still achieve what Google employees once did during 20% time. My understanding is that Google now (and for a while) has not actually continued to uphold the 20% tradition - and that was expected with company growth - but back when it did, the idea was that you could spend 20% of your time to build your own side project using Google resources and while getting paid by Google. Maybe it would become super popular and be a 'real product' some day. With "100% time" you certainly cannot legally do this. I can't go to work and devote some time to some side project using my company's resources and while getting paid to be doing other work. Sure, I could put in "100% time" into doing it, but it would be illegal. Like I said, I like the message, but mentioning 20% time seems wrong since you can't compare the two. In my opinion, anyways.

biot 13y ago
If you quit your job and have a profitable, self-sustaining business there's nothing illegal about spending your time in the pursuit of any lawful activity.
sillysaurus 13y ago
With "100% time" you certainly cannot legally do this. I can't go to work and devote some time to some side project using my company's resources and while getting paid to be doing other work. Sure, I could put in "100% time" into doing it, but it would be illegal. It's worth noting that if every developer believed this, then Python wouldn't exist, because Python was one such project.
- VintageCool 13y ago
  Python is not an appropriate example. Guido van Rossum started working on python in the late 80s while employed by a computer science research center in Europe, then continued working on it while employed by a computer science research in the United States. He didn't start working at Google (working 50% on python) until 2005.
  - sillysaurus 13y ago
    continued working on it while employed by a computer science research in the United States I was referring to this specifically, not his time at Google. His employer didn't realize he was working on Python.
    - nitrogen 13y ago
      His employer didn't realize he was working on Python. That sounds like a fascinating story, but I'm not quite sure what to search for to find it. Do you have a link, by chance?
      - jliechti1 13y ago
        Check out his talk here, he talks about that and much more: "Guido van Rossum on the History of Python": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugqu10JV7dk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugqu10JV7dk
    - roel_v 13y ago
      How many employers at universities have any idea about what their employees are doing beyond 'something with computers' or 'something with microbes' ? (exaggeration - but not a whole lot, in academia by definition most people are not in a position to understand what others are doing because what they are doing is supposed to be cutting edge)
mathgladiator 13y ago
In terms of legality, it really depends on what kind of covenants you went into. The 20% thing at Google is currently a marketing lie, and now Google is very much so a "team dependent" environment. That is, 20% is only allowed based on your team and the politics around your group. (based on several current/former google employers that I've talked to...)
- magicalist 13y ago
  > The 20% thing at Google is currently a marketing lie There was a thread recently where some googlers said the opposite. The main thing I've heard is that you have to actually assert yourself and take the 20% time, it's not going to be set aside for you. Edit: this one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5982333 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5982333
  - s_husso 13y ago
    Sadly, I think mostly in the BigCorp world, you always have to take time aside to learn new stuff (or read HN etc). Everybody knows that no one works 8h/day doing real work. Sometimes taking time for learning is frowned upon (the "bad companies" out there) but mostly it is up to you to take the time. I've never heard any of my (ex) bosses in BigCorp say that taking time from daily work to learn is not permitted. Of course it would be cool to have the 20% stated by the management, but I don't see that happening. Mostly they leave it up to you to take the 20% from the daily work.
  - qwerta 13y ago
    If you already work 50 hours a week, I am sure they will happily allow additional 10 hours for your hobbies :-)
  - mathgladiator 13y ago
    > some googlers said the opposite this makes it a team dependent thing. The other thing is politics, "oh, we are behind schedule, yet that one guy doing his 20%..." combined with stack rankings is a downward spiral. Now, if you can assert yourself and back up your assertions, then many other places will enable you to do what you want if it's directly related to the success of the business.
coldtea 13y ago
>With "100% time" you certainly cannot legally do this. I can't go to work and devote some time to some side project using my company's resources and while getting paid to be doing other work. Sure, I could put in "100% time" into doing it, but it would be illegal. You missed his point. His 100% time is not like the 80% expanded. It's like the 20% expanded. I.e instead of something like Google paying him to devote 20% to extra stuff he likes, he choose to work 100% of his time in stuff he likes, and pay himself with that.
NateDad 13y ago
You have an unusual definition of legality. Would it get you fired? Yes. Would it get you in jail? Umm... no. Slacking off is not against the law :)
cmiles74 13y ago
I believe the author works for himself, how he spends his time (i.e. on R&D, consulting, or vacation) is entirely up to him.

zaidf 13y ago

100% time means that I choose what to care about, and then dedicate all my energy to making that choice have impact There isn't a lot of difference between 100% time and the concept of 80-20. You are interpreting the 80% time almost like slavery while making it seem like your 100% time provides complete freedom. I bet the reality is in between. The 80% time is still spent working for a company you're choosing to work for, often on projects you're choosing to work on and often work that you're enjoying. Meanwhile, even when you have the freedom to dedicate 100% of your life on whatever you'd like, you're still compelled to decide what to prioritize and what to turn down because of a lack of time.

coffeemug 13y ago
I run a business. In theory I have 100% time. In practice, I still have to choose to do grunt work 80% of the time (or more) if I want my business to succeed. You can redefine and reshuffle the numbers, but ultimately the work that needs to get done needs to get done. We designed our company in such a way that to some degree everyone has 100% time. We get together and choose priorities as a group, and then everyone can spend their time as they wish, as long as the goals we agreed on as a team are met. People still choose to do grunt work, since they realize it needs to get done for the company to succeed. There is no way to escape that. I think that ultimately, it's a matter of having the choice that makes a difference between fulfillment and misery. But even if you can choose what to work on, you still have to do unpleasant work at least some of the time.
- cemerick 13y ago
  For sure, there are times when certain things simply have to get done. I didn't talk about that side of things simply because it would have diluted the message, and I figured that it was a given. However, contrary to what the GP says, 100% time (at least, my personal experience) bears little to no resemblance to the 80/20 split found in many workplaces. I don't know what the split actually shakes out to in my case, but short of allowing random HNers to surveil me (as tantalizing a notion as that may be :-P), everyone will just have to take me at my word that what I'm talking about isn't some sugar-coated notion of "it feels like I'm not working because I love my work so much".

Pavan_ 13y ago

100% time idea can only be possible in a start up company. If you consider any big corporate company, they don't even allow 10% time policy. This makes an engineer just another labor.

jaimebuelta 13y ago

Not sure about this. 20% time put some boundaries, and marks that you should be doing something different. It can be typically abused (hey, I'm supposed to have 20% for "other projects", but I have a deadline, so I'll use it for the "regular work"), but at least there is a line in the sand saying: "This is clearly time for OTHER STUFF". Your manager can say to you "hey, it's friday so you should be leaving this alone and do alternative projects" 100% sounds great, but does not define anything, so it's extremely easy to fall into "I have a lot of work, I can move to other stuff when the workload goes down". Of course, workload never goes down...

cemerick 13y ago
(Author here.) I agree that 100% time does not define anything. That is definitional. ;-) I'm "the boss" of the business, so I'm pretty well in control of what gets done and what doesn't. The whole thing requires a great deal of self-control and psychological awareness…though I'd suggest that without that, the business that makes the whole thing possible in the first place probably wouldn't exist.

davidw 13y ago

This sums up very nicely why I'm interested in building a company. It's not something I'm a 'natural' at (I'm not a great programmer, but I feel very at home with it), and I don't care about being rich, I just want time and freedom. Even with the small amount of money I've made with LiberWriter, I've tasted some of that decoupling he talks about - it's an awesome feeling when someone signs up, asks a few questions to our support team, and has their book done without me lifting a finger!

petercooper 13y ago

I'm doing something similar. I sold the technology of my (very) small startup in 2007 and had enough to stop "working" and putz around for a few years. I had no aim but kept trying whatever took my fancy. Eventually, something clicked as being in demand, profitable, and something I enjoyed doing. That's now my new business and I try to optimize so that at least 80% of the work is something I enjoy doing (and try to outsource anything that I don't!) Without that initial runway, however, I'd never have done it and this idea of having some extended time off or having a healthy pillow of cash to cushion a potential fall seems to be a common element of many stories like this.

cemerick 13y ago
I've not had an exit (threading that needle with a small software product business seems to be particularly challenging), but I hope I've been able to accomplish something similar in terms of searching for the next best thing. I think I've found it, but only time will tell; at the very least, I feel like I've found something like a "life's work" worth thinking about in those terms, so that's something... Thanks for sharing! :-)

cemerick 13y ago

Author here. While I appreciate the reads, I am even more glad for the amusement provided by various comments about how I'm confused about what "100% time" means (since, AFAIK, the post is where the term was first used outside of private conversations with friends of mine), or that it's potentially illegal, or that it's really just the typical 80/20 split and I can't tell the difference. Cheers! :-D Snark aside, Craig Andera asked me about the post on a recent Relevance podcast, and we talked about it and matters related to 100% time for a good stretch: http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/2013/05/14/chas-emerick-mostly-lazy-podcast-episode-031 http://thinkrelevance.com/blog/2013/05/14/chas-emerick-mostl...

furyofantares 13y ago
> since, AFAIK, the post is where the term was first used outside of private conversations with friends of mine I believe the term is used in the Valve employees handbook
- cemerick 13y ago
  It's close (from http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/Valve_Handbook_LowRes.pdf http://www.valvesoftware.com/company/Valve_Handbook_LowRes.p...): We’ve heard that other companies have people allocate a percentage of their time to self-directed projects. At Valve, that percentage is 100. I definitely don't claim any originality in the concept. The pithy, perhaps eye-roll-worthy phrasing, maybe. ;-)
  - loumf 13y ago
    Didn't I just read on HN that the Valve thing was BS? http://www.develop-online.net/news/44746/Valves-perfect-hiring-hierarchy-has-hidden-management-clique-like-High-School http://www.develop-online.net/news/44746/Valves-perfect-hiri... I know Chas fairly well, and I'm reasonably sure this isn't what he was talking about.
    - cemerick 13y ago
      Yes, that reply was only regarding the particular phrase "100% time", and the very broad concept of self-directed work.

jimhefferon 13y ago

Trapped my back button.