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Is a UK company less likely to give your data away? I thought the UK government was also in on the spying. Really, is there any company or government that you c

Is a UK company less likely to give your data away? I thought the UK government was also in on the spying. Really, is there any company or government that you can genuinely trust not to spy on you, or to hand over your data?

coopdog 13y ago
It's yet to be confirmed that the UK government (or any other echelon government) can/has compelled corporations to hand over user data en mass and then lie about it. Monitoring the pipes is also pretty greasy, but people consider those 'public' anyway and encrypt if necessary.
- adventured 13y ago
  They don't have to. That's what the NSA is for.
- DanBC 13y ago
  Perhaps it hasn't been confirmed because people don't want to go to prison? Also, the UK Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) which is the main law governing spies doing mass collection of content and meta-data has many more abuses - (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2696031/Anti-terrorism-laws-used-to-spy-on-noisy-children.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2696031/Anti-terroris...) > An investigation by The Sunday Telegraph found that three quarters of local authorities have used the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) 2000 over the past year. The Act gives councils the right to place residents and businesses under surveillance, trace telephone and email accounts and even send staff on undercover missions. These are all active, ongoing, abuses against real people using real data. It is a problem that GCHQ collects data, and it's a problem even if they don't grep it because eg McCarthyism could happen. The UKCrypto mailling list possibly has some discussion about the UK laws and the requirement to not let anyone know if you're being investigated. But I have no idea what to search for. (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/ukcrypto/ http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/ukcrypto/)
benwerd 13y ago
Exactly this. I'm not exactly sure what makes people in the UK (and disclosure: I spent 30 years of my 34-year life there) think that their country is somehow going to be more ethical. There are zero positive signals that this is going to be the case, as far as I can see, and particularly not now with the healthcare system being ripped apart. Unfortunately, I think there's a certain amount of patriotism at play here.
objclxt 13y ago
The UK has the world's largest DNA database. The figures Wikipedia cites suggests the UK has 10% of the population's DNA on file, whereas the US only has 0.5%. In my opinion, British people (like me!) should be far more worried about what's going on in their own backyard with regards to DNA retention and processing by the state. I don't even know why the state would need to go through 23andme. You're shedding your DNA everywhere you go. It's not hard to collect a sample.
- thebooktocome 13y ago
  For curiosity's sake, the UK also holds more DNA records in absolute numbers; 10% of 62 million is about four times larger than 0.5% of 313 million.
- 300bps 13y ago
  >You're shedding your DNA everywhere you go. It's not hard to collect a sample. Interestingly, 23andme addresses this by requiring a quite large saliva sample. The theory being that with such a large sample required you will not be able to gather enough spit from someone surreptitiously to get their genetic profile. It took me about 10 minutes to generate enough spit to put into the test tube to reach it to the marked fill level. It took longer because you're not allowed to drink anything for a period of time before you collect the sample.
  - dfc 13y ago
    You think that some spook is going to follow you around to collect DNA and then send it to 23aM? I think the parent commenter was probably under the impression that if the government was going to surreptitiously acquire your DNA they could probably find some testing facilities of their own.
    - dminor 13y ago
      No, they were merely stating that you can't easily test someone else's DNA using 23aM, despite the fact that we're shedding DNA everywhere.
    - 13y ago
specialp 13y ago
I went to school in the UK and there was a rape near my university. They had a program where males can come down and "voluntarily" get a cheek swab to "assist" in the investigation. This is also the country that has the MI5 which is a stated domestic spy agency. I am completely against the NSA spying but if you are living in the UK you have less privacy and less rights in regards to search and seizure. The police can also stop you at any time and question you.
Veelen 13y ago
The UK probably already has everyone's DNA anyways, everytime you go to a public hospital and get bloodwork done, where does that blood go? The government already owns the hospital so it would be easy for them just to get the DNA sample at that time.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  Given the trouble the NHS is currently in, I'm sure they would take funding from anyone, MI5 included.

coopdog 13y ago

It's yet to be confirmed that the UK government (or any other echelon government) can/has compelled corporations to hand over user data en mass and then lie about it. Monitoring the pipes is also pretty greasy, but people consider those 'public' anyway and encrypt if necessary.

adventured 13y ago
They don't have to. That's what the NSA is for.
DanBC 13y ago
Perhaps it hasn't been confirmed because people don't want to go to prison? Also, the UK Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) which is the main law governing spies doing mass collection of content and meta-data has many more abuses - (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2696031/Anti-terrorism-laws-used-to-spy-on-noisy-children.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2696031/Anti-terroris...) > An investigation by The Sunday Telegraph found that three quarters of local authorities have used the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) 2000 over the past year. The Act gives councils the right to place residents and businesses under surveillance, trace telephone and email accounts and even send staff on undercover missions. These are all active, ongoing, abuses against real people using real data. It is a problem that GCHQ collects data, and it's a problem even if they don't grep it because eg McCarthyism could happen. The UKCrypto mailling list possibly has some discussion about the UK laws and the requirement to not let anyone know if you're being investigated. But I have no idea what to search for. (http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/ukcrypto/ http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/pipermail/ukcrypto/)

benwerd 13y ago

Exactly this. I'm not exactly sure what makes people in the UK (and disclosure: I spent 30 years of my 34-year life there) think that their country is somehow going to be more ethical. There are zero positive signals that this is going to be the case, as far as I can see, and particularly not now with the healthcare system being ripped apart. Unfortunately, I think there's a certain amount of patriotism at play here.

objclxt 13y ago

The UK has the world's largest DNA database. The figures Wikipedia cites suggests the UK has 10% of the population's DNA on file, whereas the US only has 0.5%. In my opinion, British people (like me!) should be far more worried about what's going on in their own backyard with regards to DNA retention and processing by the state. I don't even know why the state would need to go through 23andme. You're shedding your DNA everywhere you go. It's not hard to collect a sample.

thebooktocome 13y ago
For curiosity's sake, the UK also holds more DNA records in absolute numbers; 10% of 62 million is about four times larger than 0.5% of 313 million.
300bps 13y ago
>You're shedding your DNA everywhere you go. It's not hard to collect a sample. Interestingly, 23andme addresses this by requiring a quite large saliva sample. The theory being that with such a large sample required you will not be able to gather enough spit from someone surreptitiously to get their genetic profile. It took me about 10 minutes to generate enough spit to put into the test tube to reach it to the marked fill level. It took longer because you're not allowed to drink anything for a period of time before you collect the sample.
- dfc 13y ago
  You think that some spook is going to follow you around to collect DNA and then send it to 23aM? I think the parent commenter was probably under the impression that if the government was going to surreptitiously acquire your DNA they could probably find some testing facilities of their own.
  - dminor 13y ago
    No, they were merely stating that you can't easily test someone else's DNA using 23aM, despite the fact that we're shedding DNA everywhere.
  - 13y ago

specialp 13y ago

I went to school in the UK and there was a rape near my university. They had a program where males can come down and "voluntarily" get a cheek swab to "assist" in the investigation. This is also the country that has the MI5 which is a stated domestic spy agency. I am completely against the NSA spying but if you are living in the UK you have less privacy and less rights in regards to search and seizure. The police can also stop you at any time and question you.

Veelen 13y ago

The UK probably already has everyone's DNA anyways, everytime you go to a public hospital and get bloodwork done, where does that blood go? The government already owns the hospital so it would be easy for them just to get the DNA sample at that time.

lostlogin 13y ago
Given the trouble the NHS is currently in, I'm sure they would take funding from anyone, MI5 included.