7 ms·

SkyDrive in Windows 8.1: Cloud storage the way it’s meant to be

34 points by boduh 13y ago

LeeHunter 13y ago
Cloud storage should, first of all, be OS agnostic, secondly it should be content agnostic (meaning the provider doesn't review the content for compliance to its policies). Skydrive fails on both counts.
forkrulassail 13y ago
Yes, go ahead, trust Microsoft again.
- boduh 13y ago
  Asides from PRISM/privacy concerns, the integration is pretty interesting.
  - rzh 13y ago
    reminds me of ZumoDrive
  - sounds 13y ago
    Well, except for the lack of Linux integration http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windowslive/forum/skydrive-files/when-is-skydrive-going-to-be-released-for-the/0e4d175a-3370-4e6c-8604-3db4f1b642ad http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windowslive/forum/skydriv...
  - Achshar 13y ago
    IIRC microsoft also has auto scanning for pirated or pornographic content. So if you add an mp3 that the big boss deems illegal, it will be deleted, with a probability that your account will be disabled.
- harrytuttle 13y ago
  I signed up to say this. I was a SkyDrive customer. Problems I've had: 1. I uploaded a legitimate Office 2010 ISO image to it from MSDN as I was installing it on a non-corporate networked test machine (sandbox). Next day it was gone. 2. I uploaded a few purchased MP3s to it so I could transfer them to work. When I got there, they were gone. 3. I tried to cancel my account. Every cancellation page fails with "I have one or more Microsoft Billing account subscriptions active. Please stop these first". I have never had any paid subscription service and there is nothing listed in Microsoft billing. 4. Attempts to contact support have resulted in sitting on the phone for 4 hours. Email support replies with canned messages. Complaining on forums on their web site has no effect either. You have been warned. Don't put your data in it or deal with them, even if you don't care about the NSA stuff.
  - tluyben2 13y ago
    I was going to ask this; I read about their automated scanning and removing policies last year. So those are still in place? That's not really an option then.
    - harrytuttle 13y ago
      They are definitely still in place. My problems go back only 3 months. To add to my previous comment, I still do not have a resolution on these issues.
RyanZAG 13y ago
Wow, this is evil. The Documents library even uses the SkyDrive location as its default write location, so any file saved to the Documents library will automatically go on SkyDrive. Most office workers won't even notice this. Any time someone hits save in Word, their document is sent directly to the NSA for review. This is like the 'url bar goes to google' problem in Chrome, but 1000x worse.
- flexie 13y ago
  In other words: Saving a document in the Documents library means sharing it with the government.
  - arethuza 13y ago
    They don't seem to have created a way of completely disabling SkyDrive using a GPO (Group Policy Object)! http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/office/en-US/0e840d9d-c8c0-4e0b-8620-7e9adc3b4d8d/it-is-possible-to-disable-skydrive-right http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/office/en-US/0e84... NB woe provided a correction to this - I (perhaps understandably) confused this feature with SkyDrive for Office, which appears to be something different... [NB woe's comment is dead, for no obvious reason]
    - woe 13y ago
      You're talking about the SkyDrive integration in Microsoft Office, a slightly different matter. Windows 8.1 has a "Prevent the use of SkyDrive for file storage" policy setting.
  - nodata 13y ago
    You can always delete the file, then it'll be moved to the Memory Hole.
    - RyanZAG 13y ago
      You cannot delete files off the cloud.
greyman 13y ago
Cloud storage the way it’s meant to be? Without client-side encryption support? Hmm... BTW, can someone share the experience regarding the syncing speed? Lastly I had been evaluating both Dropbox and Skydrive, I found the DB to be quicker to upload modified files - the uploading started almost immediately, which was not the case with Skydrive.
jasonkester 13y ago
I don't think I like the part where it mocks up your UI to look like your files have synced, but they're not actually sitting on your drive. I've been burned enough times by "Delayed Write", where you stick a bunch of files on a USB drive, pull it out and hop in the car, while back on your machine it pops up a little box saying "Whoa! hold up! we didn't actually copy any of those files yet, even though we said we had." This seems like another version of that same idea, except this time designed to leave me without any of the music and video I'd "synced" onto my new road machine right before hopping that month-long riverboat down the Congo. Given a choice, I think I'd prefer that my machine actually did the things with my files that I've told it to do. Copy them when I copy them, sync them when I sync them. I hope there's an option to do that here.
- boduh 13y ago
  Haven't tried it yet but I hope the visual icons (green, blue) would help me see which files have been actually synced. And yes, I know the USB drive scenario, I got burned myself many times.
Nux 13y ago
"Cloud storage the way it’s meant to be" - what a frickin joke! They should be ashamed of themselves to come up with such subjects after all that has happened!
- josteink 13y ago
  Fair enough complaint really, but keep in mind this article is around 2 weeks old at this point.
contingencies 13y ago
RMS called this "Windows: PRISM Edition" @ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045421
antninja 13y ago
They will delete your account if you upload pornographic images. Since your data is private, the only possble reason for this policy is to make the job of spies more comfortable. The way it's meant to be.
dschiptsov 13y ago
Paid content the way it meant to be. How Google Drive is less meant to be cloud storage?)
cmircea 13y ago
I think I'm going to write my own cloud storage app, to use Azure Storage or something, while encrypting everything on the client.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
yungchin 13y ago
"The files themselves use the reparse point mechanism first introduced in Windows 2000. During that first sync, stub files ("reparse points") are created to mimic the directory structure stored on SkyDrive. Any operation on these files is intercepted automatically, allowing SkyDrive to download the file on-demand." Being a long-time luser, I hadn't heard of NTFS reparse points before. Somehow, every time I read something about NTFS features, it strikes me how well thought-out that FS is, especially for its time.
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  Prepare for some disappointment. Reparse points weren't added until Vista, and they require admin privileges to make symlinks.
  - nikbackm 13y ago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_reparse_point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_reparse_point Seems to be from Windows 2000 according to Wikipedia.
    - Dylan16807 13y ago
      This article is a mess. It's talking about a whole variety of NTFS redirection features, but only some of them existed in 2000. It also got me confused, I should have said 'those reparse points', not just 'reparse points'. In 2000 you could make junction points but they only worked on directories. 2000 also supported multiple hard links to a single file. But what the article talks about, individual soft links for files, didn't get added until Vista. Despite it being a standard feature on filesystems going back decades.
  - yungchin 13y ago
    Hmmm yeah, maybe it sounded more exciting than it actually is. I interpreted the description as "symlinks that transparently link to cloud storage", which sounds like quite a feat to pull off - certainly not just a trivial generalisation of unix symlinks?
Achshar 13y ago
I just can't trust any big corp after the whole NSA thing. Never. Period. Unless they take some very drastic steps. This looks pretty slick, but I can never use this. I hope microsoft and others are reading this. All the recent flack has seriously damaged public image, at least in the power user world.
josephers 13y ago
I'm actually interested in this. I'm out of space on my Macbook Air, but I have gigabytes of photos that I'd like to be able to use with Aperture or Lightroom without using an external drive. Has anyone tried a solution to mount an online server/drive/storage as a network drive in order to do the same things that this new SkyDrive will do?
twentyfourseven 13y ago
Serious, snark-free question: is this a paid review by Microsoft? I've never been an Arstechnica reader but I thought they had more integrity than this. Talking up SkyDrive is like extolling the virtues of ivory from elephant tusks. In both cases there is a horrible hidden cost.
hereonbusiness 13y ago
I'm just thinking, maybe the NSA should start their own cloud storage service, cut out the middle man, you see. Think about it, free, no size or bandwidth restrictions, and if you use encryption they'll probably keep a backup for you, forever.

34 points by boduh 13y ago

Cloud storage should, first of all, be OS agnostic, secondly it should be content agnostic (meaning the provider doesn't review the content for compliance to its policies). Skydrive fails on both counts.

forkrulassail 13y ago

Yes, go ahead, trust Microsoft again.

boduh 13y ago
Asides from PRISM/privacy concerns, the integration is pretty interesting.
- rzh 13y ago
  reminds me of ZumoDrive
- sounds 13y ago
  Well, except for the lack of Linux integration http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windowslive/forum/skydrive-files/when-is-skydrive-going-to-be-released-for-the/0e4d175a-3370-4e6c-8604-3db4f1b642ad http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windowslive/forum/skydriv...
- Achshar 13y ago
  IIRC microsoft also has auto scanning for pirated or pornographic content. So if you add an mp3 that the big boss deems illegal, it will be deleted, with a probability that your account will be disabled.
harrytuttle 13y ago
I signed up to say this. I was a SkyDrive customer. Problems I've had: 1. I uploaded a legitimate Office 2010 ISO image to it from MSDN as I was installing it on a non-corporate networked test machine (sandbox). Next day it was gone. 2. I uploaded a few purchased MP3s to it so I could transfer them to work. When I got there, they were gone. 3. I tried to cancel my account. Every cancellation page fails with "I have one or more Microsoft Billing account subscriptions active. Please stop these first". I have never had any paid subscription service and there is nothing listed in Microsoft billing. 4. Attempts to contact support have resulted in sitting on the phone for 4 hours. Email support replies with canned messages. Complaining on forums on their web site has no effect either. You have been warned. Don't put your data in it or deal with them, even if you don't care about the NSA stuff.
- tluyben2 13y ago
  I was going to ask this; I read about their automated scanning and removing policies last year. So those are still in place? That's not really an option then.
  - harrytuttle 13y ago
    They are definitely still in place. My problems go back only 3 months. To add to my previous comment, I still do not have a resolution on these issues.

RyanZAG 13y ago

Wow, this is evil. The Documents library even uses the SkyDrive location as its default write location, so any file saved to the Documents library will automatically go on SkyDrive. Most office workers won't even notice this. Any time someone hits save in Word, their document is sent directly to the NSA for review. This is like the 'url bar goes to google' problem in Chrome, but 1000x worse.

flexie 13y ago
In other words: Saving a document in the Documents library means sharing it with the government.
- arethuza 13y ago
  They don't seem to have created a way of completely disabling SkyDrive using a GPO (Group Policy Object)! http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/office/en-US/0e840d9d-c8c0-4e0b-8620-7e9adc3b4d8d/it-is-possible-to-disable-skydrive-right http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/office/en-US/0e84... NB woe provided a correction to this - I (perhaps understandably) confused this feature with SkyDrive for Office, which appears to be something different... [NB woe's comment is dead, for no obvious reason]
  - woe 13y ago
    You're talking about the SkyDrive integration in Microsoft Office, a slightly different matter. Windows 8.1 has a "Prevent the use of SkyDrive for file storage" policy setting.
- nodata 13y ago
  You can always delete the file, then it'll be moved to the Memory Hole.
  - RyanZAG 13y ago
    You cannot delete files off the cloud.

greyman 13y ago

Cloud storage the way it’s meant to be? Without client-side encryption support? Hmm... BTW, can someone share the experience regarding the syncing speed? Lastly I had been evaluating both Dropbox and Skydrive, I found the DB to be quicker to upload modified files - the uploading started almost immediately, which was not the case with Skydrive.

jasonkester 13y ago

I don't think I like the part where it mocks up your UI to look like your files have synced, but they're not actually sitting on your drive. I've been burned enough times by "Delayed Write", where you stick a bunch of files on a USB drive, pull it out and hop in the car, while back on your machine it pops up a little box saying "Whoa! hold up! we didn't actually copy any of those files yet, even though we said we had." This seems like another version of that same idea, except this time designed to leave me without any of the music and video I'd "synced" onto my new road machine right before hopping that month-long riverboat down the Congo. Given a choice, I think I'd prefer that my machine actually did the things with my files that I've told it to do. Copy them when I copy them, sync them when I sync them. I hope there's an option to do that here.

boduh 13y ago
Haven't tried it yet but I hope the visual icons (green, blue) would help me see which files have been actually synced. And yes, I know the USB drive scenario, I got burned myself many times.

Nux 13y ago

"Cloud storage the way it’s meant to be" - what a frickin joke! They should be ashamed of themselves to come up with such subjects after all that has happened!

josteink 13y ago
Fair enough complaint really, but keep in mind this article is around 2 weeks old at this point.

contingencies 13y ago

RMS called this "Windows: PRISM Edition" @ https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045421 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6045421

antninja 13y ago

They will delete your account if you upload pornographic images. Since your data is private, the only possble reason for this policy is to make the job of spies more comfortable. The way it's meant to be.

dschiptsov 13y ago

Paid content the way it meant to be. How Google Drive is less meant to be cloud storage?)

cmircea 13y ago

I think I'm going to write my own cloud storage app, to use Azure Storage or something, while encrypting everything on the client.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

yungchin 13y ago

"The files themselves use the reparse point mechanism first introduced in Windows 2000. During that first sync, stub files ("reparse points") are created to mimic the directory structure stored on SkyDrive. Any operation on these files is intercepted automatically, allowing SkyDrive to download the file on-demand." Being a long-time luser, I hadn't heard of NTFS reparse points before. Somehow, every time I read something about NTFS features, it strikes me how well thought-out that FS is, especially for its time.

Dylan16807 13y ago
Prepare for some disappointment. Reparse points weren't added until Vista, and they require admin privileges to make symlinks.
- nikbackm 13y ago
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_reparse_point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_reparse_point Seems to be from Windows 2000 according to Wikipedia.
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    This article is a mess. It's talking about a whole variety of NTFS redirection features, but only some of them existed in 2000. It also got me confused, I should have said 'those reparse points', not just 'reparse points'. In 2000 you could make junction points but they only worked on directories. 2000 also supported multiple hard links to a single file. But what the article talks about, individual soft links for files, didn't get added until Vista. Despite it being a standard feature on filesystems going back decades.
- yungchin 13y ago
  Hmmm yeah, maybe it sounded more exciting than it actually is. I interpreted the description as "symlinks that transparently link to cloud storage", which sounds like quite a feat to pull off - certainly not just a trivial generalisation of unix symlinks?

Achshar 13y ago

I just can't trust any big corp after the whole NSA thing. Never. Period. Unless they take some very drastic steps. This looks pretty slick, but I can never use this. I hope microsoft and others are reading this. All the recent flack has seriously damaged public image, at least in the power user world.

josephers 13y ago

I'm actually interested in this. I'm out of space on my Macbook Air, but I have gigabytes of photos that I'd like to be able to use with Aperture or Lightroom without using an external drive. Has anyone tried a solution to mount an online server/drive/storage as a network drive in order to do the same things that this new SkyDrive will do?

twentyfourseven 13y ago

Serious, snark-free question: is this a paid review by Microsoft? I've never been an Arstechnica reader but I thought they had more integrity than this. Talking up SkyDrive is like extolling the virtues of ivory from elephant tusks. In both cases there is a horrible hidden cost.

hereonbusiness 13y ago

I'm just thinking, maybe the NSA should start their own cloud storage service, cut out the middle man, you see. Think about it, free, no size or bandwidth restrictions, and if you use encryption they'll probably keep a backup for you, forever.