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FB event to walk to NSA's Dagger Complex results in a visit by the German police

ccarter84 13y ago
Well...at least the German authorities were civilized about it. Not so sure our authorities (in the US) would have the same reaction.
- rfnslyr 13y ago
  Is that really the point it's gotten to? "At least they didn't kill me for trying to protect my rights".
  - jaggederest 13y ago
    "Jolly good of them to only take a toe"
  - linohh 13y ago
    I'm sure some redneck sheriff would love to send a SWAT team. Can't let the expensive team just sit around all day, they need entertainment and the city gets nice law & order pictures to please the crime-fearing crowd.
Amadou 13y ago
Question authority and authority will question you.
sschueller 13y ago
What I don't understand is why the Germans allow the US to setup a base that spies on them. According to the Spiegel the base was setup without local approval. Also also locals have been concerned for a long time because of possible radiation from the large antennas but for what ever reason the local government cant even inquire about it. Imagine a German military base in the middle of the US that has who knows what kind of equipment on it and the local town can't question it.
- majke 13y ago
  Germany doesn't "allow" US bases. They were forced to have them after World War II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_in_Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_in_Germ... [update: removed speculation about german taxpayer covering the bill]
  - at-fates-hands 13y ago
    Also keep in mind these bases pump a TON of money back into the local economy: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/30/12482964-bye-bye-gi-deep-impact-for-many-germans-as-us-troops-downsize?lite http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/30/12482964-bye-b... "City officials in Heidelberg expect annual financial losses of up to $25 million, as a result of the closures of U.S. bases in the region." "We estimate that a total of about 1,000 civilian jobs will be lost, when the nearly 8,000 service members pull out," said Diana Scharl, a spokesperson for the city of Heidelberg."
    - radicaldreamer 13y ago
      There's at least one person like you in every one of these threads, propagating the idea that money or economics makes injustice okay.
      - dllthomas 13y ago
        Who said anything about "okay"? It's an explanation for there being less protest then there might otherwise be.
      - tzs 13y ago
        What injustice? The Germans approve the bases. The US finds them useful. It's a mutually beneficial situation that both sides want to continue.
        sliverstorm 13y ago
        Do you not see the injustice!?! :^)
timbrooke 13y ago
Europe is like Marsellus Wallace in Pulp Fiction (where he's bent over). The US is the thug behind him. And both seem to be enjoying it.
- cmdkeen 13y ago
  According to released information most of the espionage occurring against Europe is economic. From the UK wanting to know what German interest rate policies were back in the 1980s to Airbus to current the current state of EU finances and what they are planning to do. Germany is in a fantastic economic situation and has unparalleled soft power across Europe at the moment. So yes, certain European nations are enjoying it, and are not in the slightest bent over.
joezydeco 13y ago
Not that this justifies what happened at all, but: "Bangert, a veteran of the Blockupy protests in Frankfurt, had set up a group calling itself "NSA spy protection league" (NSA Spion Schutzbund), as if the US spies were an endangered species of birds" Would it be more reasonable to think that this individual was probably already being monitored as part of his Blockupy, and perhaps the German government was the one watching him more than the NSA was?
- linohh 13y ago
  German police is monitoring Facebook and has been for years. We once had a Conference at our University. Someone posted something about a party (back when everyone was afraid of facebook parties) and 15 minutes later the police arrived. They were not allowed to enter the premises, but by coincidence wink wink someone pulled the fire alarm in a then-vacant building 15 minutes later, which opened the gates and barriers for the cop cruisers waiting just around the corner. By coincidence of course.
  - joezydeco 13y ago
    Wow, that sounds like something American cops would do. That's awful.
astangl 13y ago
With all the talk of spying and monitoring citizens' whereabouts via license plate scans -- can anybody setup a camera to take snapshots of license plates of cars entering & leaving NSA & other such installations, and cross-reference these against license records?
- s_q_b 13y ago
  A few years ago at Defcon someone rigged up a Twitter scraper, and found all the tweets that geolocated to the massive NSA headquarters parking lot. That said, it's not clear to me that it's legal to actively attempt to "out" NSA employees.
  - paulyg 13y ago
    Regardless of its legality, I'm sure the spooks would find an excuse to come shake you down.
    - s_q_b 13y ago
      I don't dabble in anything illegal, and I don't scare easily, so they wouldn't really have anything to hold over me. But yeah, I can definitely see that going that route would invite some unwanted attention. It's probably one of the reasons we haven't seen a mass effort to dox the 50k or so NSA employees.
    - brown9-2 13y ago
      I think most of the time you would want some sort of official response to an attempt to systematically catalog the employees of your nation's clandestine intelligence agencies.
  - rbellio 13y ago
    I tried finding more about the Twitter scraper, but didn't find anything. Could you provide a link? I think I'd get a good chuckle from it.
    - 13y ago

Well...at least the German authorities were civilized about it. Not so sure our authorities (in the US) would have the same reaction.

rfnslyr 13y ago
Is that really the point it's gotten to? "At least they didn't kill me for trying to protect my rights".
- jaggederest 13y ago
  "Jolly good of them to only take a toe"
- linohh 13y ago
  I'm sure some redneck sheriff would love to send a SWAT team. Can't let the expensive team just sit around all day, they need entertainment and the city gets nice law & order pictures to please the crime-fearing crowd.

Amadou 13y ago

Question authority and authority will question you.

sschueller 13y ago

What I don't understand is why the Germans allow the US to setup a base that spies on them. According to the Spiegel the base was setup without local approval. Also also locals have been concerned for a long time because of possible radiation from the large antennas but for what ever reason the local government cant even inquire about it. Imagine a German military base in the middle of the US that has who knows what kind of equipment on it and the local town can't question it.

majke 13y ago
Germany doesn't "allow" US bases. They were forced to have them after World War II: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_in_Germany http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Air_Force_in_Germ... [update: removed speculation about german taxpayer covering the bill]
- at-fates-hands 13y ago
  Also keep in mind these bases pump a TON of money back into the local economy: http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/30/12482964-bye-bye-gi-deep-impact-for-many-germans-as-us-troops-downsize?lite http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/06/30/12482964-bye-b... "City officials in Heidelberg expect annual financial losses of up to $25 million, as a result of the closures of U.S. bases in the region." "We estimate that a total of about 1,000 civilian jobs will be lost, when the nearly 8,000 service members pull out," said Diana Scharl, a spokesperson for the city of Heidelberg."
  - radicaldreamer 13y ago
    There's at least one person like you in every one of these threads, propagating the idea that money or economics makes injustice okay.
    - dllthomas 13y ago
      Who said anything about "okay"? It's an explanation for there being less protest then there might otherwise be.
    - tzs 13y ago
      What injustice? The Germans approve the bases. The US finds them useful. It's a mutually beneficial situation that both sides want to continue.
      - sliverstorm 13y ago
        Do you not see the injustice!?! :^)

timbrooke 13y ago

Europe is like Marsellus Wallace in Pulp Fiction (where he's bent over). The US is the thug behind him. And both seem to be enjoying it.

cmdkeen 13y ago
According to released information most of the espionage occurring against Europe is economic. From the UK wanting to know what German interest rate policies were back in the 1980s to Airbus to current the current state of EU finances and what they are planning to do. Germany is in a fantastic economic situation and has unparalleled soft power across Europe at the moment. So yes, certain European nations are enjoying it, and are not in the slightest bent over.

joezydeco 13y ago

Not that this justifies what happened at all, but: "Bangert, a veteran of the Blockupy protests in Frankfurt, had set up a group calling itself "NSA spy protection league" (NSA Spion Schutzbund), as if the US spies were an endangered species of birds" Would it be more reasonable to think that this individual was probably already being monitored as part of his Blockupy, and perhaps the German government was the one watching him more than the NSA was?

linohh 13y ago
German police is monitoring Facebook and has been for years. We once had a Conference at our University. Someone posted something about a party (back when everyone was afraid of facebook parties) and 15 minutes later the police arrived. They were not allowed to enter the premises, but by coincidence wink wink someone pulled the fire alarm in a then-vacant building 15 minutes later, which opened the gates and barriers for the cop cruisers waiting just around the corner. By coincidence of course.
- joezydeco 13y ago
  Wow, that sounds like something American cops would do. That's awful.

astangl 13y ago

With all the talk of spying and monitoring citizens' whereabouts via license plate scans -- can anybody setup a camera to take snapshots of license plates of cars entering & leaving NSA & other such installations, and cross-reference these against license records?

s_q_b 13y ago
A few years ago at Defcon someone rigged up a Twitter scraper, and found all the tweets that geolocated to the massive NSA headquarters parking lot. That said, it's not clear to me that it's legal to actively attempt to "out" NSA employees.
- paulyg 13y ago
  Regardless of its legality, I'm sure the spooks would find an excuse to come shake you down.
  - s_q_b 13y ago
    I don't dabble in anything illegal, and I don't scare easily, so they wouldn't really have anything to hold over me. But yeah, I can definitely see that going that route would invite some unwanted attention. It's probably one of the reasons we haven't seen a mass effort to dox the 50k or so NSA employees.
  - brown9-2 13y ago
    I think most of the time you would want some sort of official response to an attempt to systematically catalog the employees of your nation's clandestine intelligence agencies.
- rbellio 13y ago
  I tried finding more about the Twitter scraper, but didn't find anything. Could you provide a link? I think I'd get a good chuckle from it.
  - 13y ago