6 ms·

DMT, the NeXT and the Soul of the Human/Machine

136 points by imfreemind 13y ago

Lapsa 13y ago
> If you are an indie following your heart, your passion and your dreams, then a world of individual sovereignty, collaboration and interdependence becomes possible. > or will we use the technology to set ourselves free? > a universe of possibilities when we each come from a place of We instead of I. I've always thought of psychedelics use as a trade of Seeing for loss of self identification. Unless you can alternate between those states freely - it's pointless and you are shackled either way. If everyone tells to "think outside the box", ironically - that's what box becomes to. A virtual reality - distorted picture of real thing and source of Terence`s 'Alien love'.
- hosh 13y ago
  You know, I used to think that way. This isn't something you "alternate". There's a way of being where you can be in unity consciousness at the same time you are experiencing duality and the material world. The other thing is that, any picture or image or story you form is always going to be the distortion of Reality. Reality is inherently non-dual, so defies description (even what I just said). It means, to be free of whatever box you find yourself in, you are constantly mindful of the present moment. Sure, just saying this will give distorted teachings. Mystics from ages past have always tried to speak of this, and it has always distorted into things like "religion" for the masses. This is fine though. This is part of the human experience.
  - Lapsa 13y ago
    > always going to be the distortion of Reality "Food you cook from scratch doesn't need a nutrition label." > This isn't something you "alternate". There's a way of being where you can be in unity consciousness at the same time you are experiencing duality and the material world. I made a song about this: https://soundcloud.com/lapsa/vk https://soundcloud.com/lapsa/vk (quote by Castaneda) It's "finding yourself in" step what's important.
    - hosh 13y ago
      Groovy.
- coldtea 13y ago
  >I've always thought of psychedelics use as a trade of Seeing for loss of self identification. Unless you can alternate between those states freely - it's pointless and you are shackled either way. Only if you consider "loss of self identitification" a negative.
  - Lapsa 13y ago
    As I said - just pointless. Ego is what enables empathy. It's a tool that makes it possible to "become something" in your mind and understand from within. What good it is when it's in size of universe? Everything just looks alike. Striving to understand universe as a whole is pointless - you just hit infinity right away by the very fact you are trying to achieve. This dimmed vision hits emotions too. When those start to look the same, man starts to seek "stronger" and more colorful emotions. Also - that is why loss of self identification is seen as a highway to addiction and scares so many away.
    - coldtea 13y ago
      >Ego is what enables empathy. Emm, actually the inverse. It's be overcoming ego that you have empathy. >What good it is when it's in size of universe? Everything just looks alike. Why would it be "the size of the universe"? The idea is to eliminate ego (as in egotism and seperation), not expand it. You still have a self, obviously (else you would be in a vegetative state). You just don't give it outmost precedence over everybody else.
      - Lapsa 13y ago
        > Why would it be "the size of the universe"? The idea is to eliminate ego (as in egotism and seperation), not expand it. I think that that's what elimination of ego is - expanding it in explosion like fashion till you can't figure where the boundaries are at. And egotism is a complex thing. Your kitty cat doesn't care what you think, you are the one that gets polarised.
api 13y ago
I can't wait for the social media IPO coke binge hangover to wear off and the Valley to rediscover its roots as a hotbed of real innovation, real intellectual daring, and the courage to dream big and then do it. Bigger and better things than, you know, Facebook games and click through ads.
- lukifer 13y ago
  "The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks." - Jeff Hammerbacher
  - workbench 13y ago
    They knew what they were signing up for. Maybe their minds are not that great after all.
    - api 13y ago
      Even great minds need to eat. The problem is that truly daring, innovative work simply doesn't pay that well. It's an uphill battle at best, and a vow of poverty at worst. There is very little funding for hard, long term, daring projects. The other problem is more systemic and less confined to tech. Most of the people I know under 40 are shackled to student and other forms of debt and home ownership is utterly unthinkable to them. (So they have no way to ever escape paying rent to the rentier class.) They have no "fuck you money," or even enough slack to contemplate changing course. They have to go for whatever pays the best even if they hate it and even if it's stupid or they have no hope of ever escaping the indentured servitude of the debt-financed college degree. Combine that with real estate hyperinflation and you have a formula for an economy that encourages premature convergence on local maxima: http://repositorium.sdum.uminho.pt/bitstream/1822/4291/1/P078.pdf http://repositorium.sdum.uminho.pt/bitstream/1822/4291/1/P07...
  - otisfunkmeyer 13y ago
    "best minds" needs many air-quotes attached.
  - 13y ago
ErikAugust 13y ago
"US publishing houses did not buy in, sales faltered. And this is where Steve wandered from his path - he began courting the Fortune 500 and the dark agencies - NSA and CIA - because these people could afford his expensive machines." Thought this was interesting...
cypherpunks01 13y ago
Anyone curious about the very strong psychedelic-PC connection should read John Markoff's book: "What the Dormouse Said: How the Sixties Counterculture Shaped the Personal Computer Industry" http://www.amazon.com/dp/0143036769 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0143036769
deepvibrations 13y ago
Wow, loved this, brilliant read, gives me hope for the future!
- rohall 13y ago
  I loved reading it, but it actually made me concerned. Maybe it's just where I stand, but it seems that culture has slipped far from where it was.
  - hosh 13y ago
    Generally, the people I talked to who have taken entheogens feels that about the world in general. But the same attitude is there for accomplished yogis and meditators too.
tankbot 13y ago
Love this article. It makes me think of my friends who are all techies, but somehow we're all hippies, only in our late twenties/early thirties. The culture Andrew envisions is still alive and kicking. It's never on the front page, but it's always there, guided as ever by psychedelics and love of creating.
- hosh 13y ago
  Next up: the Hippie Makers.
Abundnce10 13y ago
"... here's a technique you can employ in a minute: inhale deeply through your nose with power, exhale, repeat until you can't stand it. Hold your breath. When you feel the rush, stop, let go, and let it unfold. You'll experience the onset of the DMT experience. With practice, you'll learn to go through the portal, without drugs except the ones produced right in your very own body."
- Zelphyr 13y ago
  Aren't you just hyperventilating when you do this? How is hyperventilating yourself a portal to new consciousness? That sounds unintentionally negative. I'm genuinely curious.
  - qwerty_asdf 13y ago
    Well, oxygen deprivation does get you high... That happens to be one of the main reasons why huffing volatile chemicals is so much fun.
  - hosh 13y ago
    He simplified things. There are some technical details like: allowing the diaphragm to expand fully, the ribs to expand, and the collar bones to expand. Other details such as: doing this while relaxed (relaxed enough to let go of volitional control over the breathing while still being aware of the movement), not forcing the breath, where you can't hear the breath. Hyperventilation, as in, nervous or panic reaction usually coincides with shallow breathing, where the diaphragm and ribs don't move much, if at all. You don't circulate much oxygen. The technique the author is talking about significantly increasing the amount of oxygen circulating in your body. Finally, the most important point. This isn't something you can dissect from the outside. You try it and experience it.
  - josscrowcroft 13y ago
    If interested, I believe he's talking about something like Holotropic Breathwork, pioneered by Stan Grof. I've heard great things..
wwwarhawk 13y ago
Anyone have a 1-page version of this?
- mlwarren 13y ago
  Here is the PDF version (http://stone.com/dmt/DMT-NeXT-and-the-HumanMachine.pdf http://stone.com/dmt/DMT-NeXT-and-the-HumanMachine.pdf).
kpennell 13y ago
This spirit definitely still lives on in the Bay Area and tech world in general, but I think it's slowly being squashed by the sheer number of people who are going into tech for money (and only money). Changing the world, connecting the "we", expanding consciousness are secondary to "crushing it". The things the author talked about in that article are seen are hippie, raver, or burner... Why try to make this happen in the bay anymore when you're going to have to fight simply to get a room that you pay $1200 for? Better to flee to cheaper areas where you can have more time to hack and work on hippie projects. Or Oakland? I don't know. On a sidenote, these guys seem to be fighting the good fight for this cause: http://freespace.io/events/ http://freespace.io/events/
cnp 13y ago
I loved that little essay. If anyone is interested, there's a 27-video playlist of the author speaking about his experiences with DMT for the Spirit Molecule documentary. His commentary is my favorite out of all the participants. Very heart-felt and fascinating: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_PJoDA2lo&list=PLC3FC3395C9495B69 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_PJoDA2lo&list=PLC3FC3395C9...
dwaltrip 13y ago
Very interesting article. As a side note, does anyone have links to solid research on the long term effects (physiological and psychological) of these psychedelics? It amazes me how little conclusive information there is, although I know gov stifling certainly hasn't helped.
dbpokorny 13y ago
For anyone who is interested in LSD and/or DMT, I highly recommend heading over to reddit.com/r/lsd or reddit.com/r/dmt. Long and short of it is, yes, these drugs can change your life, yes, these drugs can fuck up your life, and no, the results are not predictable. Anyone considering taking mind-altering drugs, I urge you, please give nine minutes of your time, and spend each of those nine minutes listening to the first nine minutes of this video, Ayya Khema "Why Meditate ~ 4 Kinds of Happiness" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zAQU8MEHnM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zAQU8MEHnM Thank you, that is all --DBP P.S. If you're really pressed for time, just listen to the one minute between 5:00 and 6:00.

136 points by imfreemind 13y ago

Lapsa 13y ago

> If you are an indie following your heart, your passion and your dreams, then a world of individual sovereignty, collaboration and interdependence becomes possible. > or will we use the technology to set ourselves free? > a universe of possibilities when we each come from a place of We instead of I. I've always thought of psychedelics use as a trade of Seeing for loss of self identification. Unless you can alternate between those states freely - it's pointless and you are shackled either way. If everyone tells to "think outside the box", ironically - that's what box becomes to. A virtual reality - distorted picture of real thing and source of Terence`s 'Alien love'.

hosh 13y ago
You know, I used to think that way. This isn't something you "alternate". There's a way of being where you can be in unity consciousness at the same time you are experiencing duality and the material world. The other thing is that, any picture or image or story you form is always going to be the distortion of Reality. Reality is inherently non-dual, so defies description (even what I just said). It means, to be free of whatever box you find yourself in, you are constantly mindful of the present moment. Sure, just saying this will give distorted teachings. Mystics from ages past have always tried to speak of this, and it has always distorted into things like "religion" for the masses. This is fine though. This is part of the human experience.
- Lapsa 13y ago
  > always going to be the distortion of Reality "Food you cook from scratch doesn't need a nutrition label." > This isn't something you "alternate". There's a way of being where you can be in unity consciousness at the same time you are experiencing duality and the material world. I made a song about this: https://soundcloud.com/lapsa/vk https://soundcloud.com/lapsa/vk (quote by Castaneda) It's "finding yourself in" step what's important.
  - hosh 13y ago
    Groovy.
coldtea 13y ago
>I've always thought of psychedelics use as a trade of Seeing for loss of self identification. Unless you can alternate between those states freely - it's pointless and you are shackled either way. Only if you consider "loss of self identitification" a negative.
- Lapsa 13y ago
  As I said - just pointless. Ego is what enables empathy. It's a tool that makes it possible to "become something" in your mind and understand from within. What good it is when it's in size of universe? Everything just looks alike. Striving to understand universe as a whole is pointless - you just hit infinity right away by the very fact you are trying to achieve. This dimmed vision hits emotions too. When those start to look the same, man starts to seek "stronger" and more colorful emotions. Also - that is why loss of self identification is seen as a highway to addiction and scares so many away.
  - coldtea 13y ago
    >Ego is what enables empathy. Emm, actually the inverse. It's be overcoming ego that you have empathy. >What good it is when it's in size of universe? Everything just looks alike. Why would it be "the size of the universe"? The idea is to eliminate ego (as in egotism and seperation), not expand it. You still have a self, obviously (else you would be in a vegetative state). You just don't give it outmost precedence over everybody else.
    - Lapsa 13y ago
      > Why would it be "the size of the universe"? The idea is to eliminate ego (as in egotism and seperation), not expand it. I think that that's what elimination of ego is - expanding it in explosion like fashion till you can't figure where the boundaries are at. And egotism is a complex thing. Your kitty cat doesn't care what you think, you are the one that gets polarised.

api 13y ago

I can't wait for the social media IPO coke binge hangover to wear off and the Valley to rediscover its roots as a hotbed of real innovation, real intellectual daring, and the courage to dream big and then do it. Bigger and better things than, you know, Facebook games and click through ads.

lukifer 13y ago
"The best minds of my generation are thinking about how to make people click ads. That sucks." - Jeff Hammerbacher
- workbench 13y ago
  They knew what they were signing up for. Maybe their minds are not that great after all.
  - api 13y ago
    Even great minds need to eat. The problem is that truly daring, innovative work simply doesn't pay that well. It's an uphill battle at best, and a vow of poverty at worst. There is very little funding for hard, long term, daring projects. The other problem is more systemic and less confined to tech. Most of the people I know under 40 are shackled to student and other forms of debt and home ownership is utterly unthinkable to them. (So they have no way to ever escape paying rent to the rentier class.) They have no "fuck you money," or even enough slack to contemplate changing course. They have to go for whatever pays the best even if they hate it and even if it's stupid or they have no hope of ever escaping the indentured servitude of the debt-financed college degree. Combine that with real estate hyperinflation and you have a formula for an economy that encourages premature convergence on local maxima: http://repositorium.sdum.uminho.pt/bitstream/1822/4291/1/P078.pdf http://repositorium.sdum.uminho.pt/bitstream/1822/4291/1/P07...
- otisfunkmeyer 13y ago
  "best minds" needs many air-quotes attached.
- 13y ago

ErikAugust 13y ago

"US publishing houses did not buy in, sales faltered. And this is where Steve wandered from his path - he began courting the Fortune 500 and the dark agencies - NSA and CIA - because these people could afford his expensive machines." Thought this was interesting...

cypherpunks01 13y ago

Anyone curious about the very strong psychedelic-PC connection should read John Markoff's book: "What the Dormouse Said: How the Sixties Counterculture Shaped the Personal Computer Industry" http://www.amazon.com/dp/0143036769 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0143036769

deepvibrations 13y ago

Wow, loved this, brilliant read, gives me hope for the future!

rohall 13y ago
I loved reading it, but it actually made me concerned. Maybe it's just where I stand, but it seems that culture has slipped far from where it was.
- hosh 13y ago
  Generally, the people I talked to who have taken entheogens feels that about the world in general. But the same attitude is there for accomplished yogis and meditators too.

tankbot 13y ago

Love this article. It makes me think of my friends who are all techies, but somehow we're all hippies, only in our late twenties/early thirties. The culture Andrew envisions is still alive and kicking. It's never on the front page, but it's always there, guided as ever by psychedelics and love of creating.

hosh 13y ago
Next up: the Hippie Makers.

Abundnce10 13y ago

"... here's a technique you can employ in a minute: inhale deeply through your nose with power, exhale, repeat until you can't stand it. Hold your breath. When you feel the rush, stop, let go, and let it unfold. You'll experience the onset of the DMT experience. With practice, you'll learn to go through the portal, without drugs except the ones produced right in your very own body."

Zelphyr 13y ago
Aren't you just hyperventilating when you do this? How is hyperventilating yourself a portal to new consciousness? That sounds unintentionally negative. I'm genuinely curious.
- qwerty_asdf 13y ago
  Well, oxygen deprivation does get you high... That happens to be one of the main reasons why huffing volatile chemicals is so much fun.
- hosh 13y ago
  He simplified things. There are some technical details like: allowing the diaphragm to expand fully, the ribs to expand, and the collar bones to expand. Other details such as: doing this while relaxed (relaxed enough to let go of volitional control over the breathing while still being aware of the movement), not forcing the breath, where you can't hear the breath. Hyperventilation, as in, nervous or panic reaction usually coincides with shallow breathing, where the diaphragm and ribs don't move much, if at all. You don't circulate much oxygen. The technique the author is talking about significantly increasing the amount of oxygen circulating in your body. Finally, the most important point. This isn't something you can dissect from the outside. You try it and experience it.
- josscrowcroft 13y ago
  If interested, I believe he's talking about something like Holotropic Breathwork, pioneered by Stan Grof. I've heard great things..

wwwarhawk 13y ago

Anyone have a 1-page version of this?

mlwarren 13y ago
Here is the PDF version (http://stone.com/dmt/DMT-NeXT-and-the-HumanMachine.pdf http://stone.com/dmt/DMT-NeXT-and-the-HumanMachine.pdf).

kpennell 13y ago

This spirit definitely still lives on in the Bay Area and tech world in general, but I think it's slowly being squashed by the sheer number of people who are going into tech for money (and only money). Changing the world, connecting the "we", expanding consciousness are secondary to "crushing it". The things the author talked about in that article are seen are hippie, raver, or burner... Why try to make this happen in the bay anymore when you're going to have to fight simply to get a room that you pay $1200 for? Better to flee to cheaper areas where you can have more time to hack and work on hippie projects. Or Oakland? I don't know. On a sidenote, these guys seem to be fighting the good fight for this cause: http://freespace.io/events/ http://freespace.io/events/

cnp 13y ago

I loved that little essay. If anyone is interested, there's a 27-video playlist of the author speaking about his experiences with DMT for the Spirit Molecule documentary. His commentary is my favorite out of all the participants. Very heart-felt and fascinating: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_PJoDA2lo&list=PLC3FC3395C9495B69 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM_PJoDA2lo&list=PLC3FC3395C9...

dwaltrip 13y ago

Very interesting article. As a side note, does anyone have links to solid research on the long term effects (physiological and psychological) of these psychedelics? It amazes me how little conclusive information there is, although I know gov stifling certainly hasn't helped.

dbpokorny 13y ago

For anyone who is interested in LSD and/or DMT, I highly recommend heading over to reddit.com/r/lsd or reddit.com/r/dmt. Long and short of it is, yes, these drugs can change your life, yes, these drugs can fuck up your life, and no, the results are not predictable. Anyone considering taking mind-altering drugs, I urge you, please give nine minutes of your time, and spend each of those nine minutes listening to the first nine minutes of this video, Ayya Khema "Why Meditate ~ 4 Kinds of Happiness" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zAQU8MEHnM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zAQU8MEHnM Thank you, that is all --DBP P.S. If you're really pressed for time, just listen to the one minute between 5:00 and 6:00.