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Wow. 1) Good for Valve. I think this is the beginning of an already awesome company evolving even further. 2) Jeri Ellsworth (fired valve employee) was right.

Wow. 1) Good for Valve. I think this is the beginning of an already awesome company evolving even further. 2) Jeri Ellsworth (fired valve employee) was right. Some of the older Valve employees really have been holding the company back in terms of culture and new hires. This seems to be Valve's response by fixing itself and focusing on recruiting new younger staff. The problem with being an awesome place to work is that employees don't leave even when they should. They might in turn refuse to let younger employees in out of fear that they'll be replaced. So slowly it destroys the natural cycle of replacement of old ideas with fresh new ones. It might not be set up as a recruitment platform but it sure can be used like one to Valve's advantage. They can support kids who want to get into the industry and at the same time snap up the best of the best before other companies do. 3) Also, Valve hires only the most experienced who can self manage themselves. This has allowed them to do a lot with only 300 or so people but expanding seems to be slow. Other companies hire juniors, work them hard, pay them below market wages, and can expand faster and create more IP. If Valve wants to launch more IP or expand they're going to have to change their ways. And it seems they've come to terms with that.

CaveTech 13y ago
Aren't high schoolers the wrong crowd? I mean it lets them get their feet wet, but most (read: 99.99%) of high schoolers won't be valuable employees to a technology company.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- jmgrosen 13y ago
  Speaking as a high schooler, I think there are plenty of us out there who would be plenty helpful to a company like Valve. (I like to think I would be one of them!) As for this project, I, for one, would like to learn about 3D rendering -- that's always been something that I'd admired from afar.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]
  - frakkingcylons 13y ago
    If you're seriously interested in learning about 3D rendering and have some programming (and some linear algebra) experience, you should look into Udacity's CS291 course. https://www.udacity.com/course/cs291 https://www.udacity.com/course/cs291
    - jmgrosen 13y ago
      Awesome, thanks! Programming experience I definitely have, and some linear algebra... although I'll be taking that course soon. Again, thanks!
- zachlatta 13y ago
  I wouldn't say so. I'm currently in high school and working at a small indie studio on our flagship game. Working with other professionals on a title that matters is invaluable experience, at least in my opinion.
  - CaveTech 13y ago
    Invaluable experience yes, but it's really the employer who is providing the value, which is backwards in business sense.
    - zachlatta 13y ago
      You, my dear friend, just described an internship. I'm one of two programmers on the game we're working on. I feel like I contribute a fair share as an employee to the game.
- bloaf 13y ago
  If nothing else, they might be a good audience for Valve's older employees to bounce ideas off of. They could provide information about what teens (a big consumer of Valve's products) want and think are cool.
- nadaviv 13y ago
  I was a full time dev at 16, and believe that I was quite valuable to the company. Some other comments tell similar stories, so it seems like its not that rare. I wouldn't be so quick to say that high schoolers aren't valuable at all, but I do agree that most of them probably aren't.
- 1123581321 13y ago
  Valve is a company that has the margin and the culture to support products that don't pay an immediate return. That said, I see some immediate benefits: 1. This will attract a large pool of young talent and some of them will make direct contributions and contributions through feedback and interplay of ideas. 2. This creates goodwill in the developer and education community which helps experienced industry professionals to think more highly of Valve. They will be more likely to apply or recommend applying. 3. This, as has been said, improves conditions at Valve and helps to shine light on more stultified areas of the company.
- jauer 13y ago
  They are cheap and you can cycle them quickly without too much grief until you find the good ones. We (little ISP) get them for a few hours each day after school and put them to work answering phones. They get some work experience and credit under the high school's "industry as shop class" scheme. The better ones get a job for the summer and a raise. If they show the right blend of bordom doing phone support combined with motivation to learn systems stuff we promote them and give them sysadmin projects. Worst case they end up with some clerical work experience in a office environment. Best case they learn some combination of Sysadmin/Netadmin/Coder. Either way it beats working fast food or stocking shelves.
  - nowarninglabel 13y ago
    Absolutely, what a great program to be running.
- brandonbloom 13y ago
  You forget that Valve's offices are in Microsoft's backyard. I helped out at http://studentrnd.com/ http://studentrnd.com/ a few times. Hooooly crap. Some of those 14 year olds can code! Having two Microsoft Devs as parents is a pretty good strategy if you want to grow up and be valuable to Valve.
pbsdp 13y ago
The ageism in your post is disconcerting. On one hand you equate youth with innovation, age with stagnation, and on the other you posit that overworking youth for below market wages is simply a cost of doing business.
- ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
  Youth haven't been conditioned and molded yet by their industries, they're young, stupid and make mistakes and in the process find new ways of doing things. Because they're young they don't have experience nor families to take care of, and thus will take low wages. They don't demand too many benefits, and you can work them like mules. They also flood the market and are over supplied and under demanded. The average game developer is a 31 year old white male. As soon as they start settling down and wanting to have a family they leave the industry. They burn out, and they are replaced. It's not the "right" way for every company. Valve and other companies do the opposite. But for most of the industry it is a cost of doing business. I could have chosen to be politically correct or realistic & honest. I chose realistic & honest.
  - javert 13y ago
    Now that Valve has caught on to this technique, other game companies are going to have to step up their game if they want to stay competitive. Working people like mules? Pssht, that's nothing. I suggest they take some advice from advisors of PhD students. Also, I'm willing to provide consulting services if/when I graduate.
  - jhawk28 13y ago
    There are laws limiting the amount a teenager can work.
  - jwarkentin 13y ago
    That's a gross over-generalization of youth. Age alone does not tell you anything about intelligence, experience or the likelihood of making mistakes. There may be a general correlation, but it is not causation. You may have a 20-year-old who's been programming and contributing to open-source projects since he was 10 against a 31-year-old who's been programming since he was 27. Who has more experience? Who's more likely to make mistakes? - Age has nothing to do with it. You could say people new in the industry haven't been conditioned and molded yet. They're young in the industry and thus make stupid mistakes in the process and in the process find new ways of doing things. That would be far more accurate.
corresation 13y ago
Reading your post -- in particular the held-high observations of someone who was fired -- one would think that Valve was a relic of a company full of apparently useless seniors who are just waiting out their days until they can retire to go fishing. You know, the same Valve that is one of the most successful software companies operating, and is a company that is pretty much universally understood to have an incredible ability to execute. It's a weird conflict, really. As others have said, there is a bitter taste of manifestly unwarranted ageism in your post.
jwarkentin 13y ago
Age has nothing to do with anything. Old or young, people can be intelligent, productive and very forward thinking. It is true that many people who have been in the industry a while have found a job and technologies where they're comfortable and don't want to change; but it's just as true that many continue to move forward and try new things.

CaveTech 13y ago

Aren't high schoolers the wrong crowd? I mean it lets them get their feet wet, but most (read: 99.99%) of high schoolers won't be valuable employees to a technology company.

deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
jmgrosen 13y ago
Speaking as a high schooler, I think there are plenty of us out there who would be plenty helpful to a company like Valve. (I like to think I would be one of them!) As for this project, I, for one, would like to learn about 3D rendering -- that's always been something that I'd admired from afar.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
- frakkingcylons 13y ago
  If you're seriously interested in learning about 3D rendering and have some programming (and some linear algebra) experience, you should look into Udacity's CS291 course. https://www.udacity.com/course/cs291 https://www.udacity.com/course/cs291
  - jmgrosen 13y ago
    Awesome, thanks! Programming experience I definitely have, and some linear algebra... although I'll be taking that course soon. Again, thanks!
zachlatta 13y ago
I wouldn't say so. I'm currently in high school and working at a small indie studio on our flagship game. Working with other professionals on a title that matters is invaluable experience, at least in my opinion.
- CaveTech 13y ago
  Invaluable experience yes, but it's really the employer who is providing the value, which is backwards in business sense.
  - zachlatta 13y ago
    You, my dear friend, just described an internship. I'm one of two programmers on the game we're working on. I feel like I contribute a fair share as an employee to the game.
bloaf 13y ago
If nothing else, they might be a good audience for Valve's older employees to bounce ideas off of. They could provide information about what teens (a big consumer of Valve's products) want and think are cool.
nadaviv 13y ago
I was a full time dev at 16, and believe that I was quite valuable to the company. Some other comments tell similar stories, so it seems like its not that rare. I wouldn't be so quick to say that high schoolers aren't valuable at all, but I do agree that most of them probably aren't.
1123581321 13y ago
Valve is a company that has the margin and the culture to support products that don't pay an immediate return. That said, I see some immediate benefits: 1. This will attract a large pool of young talent and some of them will make direct contributions and contributions through feedback and interplay of ideas. 2. This creates goodwill in the developer and education community which helps experienced industry professionals to think more highly of Valve. They will be more likely to apply or recommend applying. 3. This, as has been said, improves conditions at Valve and helps to shine light on more stultified areas of the company.
jauer 13y ago
They are cheap and you can cycle them quickly without too much grief until you find the good ones. We (little ISP) get them for a few hours each day after school and put them to work answering phones. They get some work experience and credit under the high school's "industry as shop class" scheme. The better ones get a job for the summer and a raise. If they show the right blend of bordom doing phone support combined with motivation to learn systems stuff we promote them and give them sysadmin projects. Worst case they end up with some clerical work experience in a office environment. Best case they learn some combination of Sysadmin/Netadmin/Coder. Either way it beats working fast food or stocking shelves.
- nowarninglabel 13y ago
  Absolutely, what a great program to be running.
brandonbloom 13y ago
You forget that Valve's offices are in Microsoft's backyard. I helped out at http://studentrnd.com/ http://studentrnd.com/ a few times. Hooooly crap. Some of those 14 year olds can code! Having two Microsoft Devs as parents is a pretty good strategy if you want to grow up and be valuable to Valve.

pbsdp 13y ago

The ageism in your post is disconcerting. On one hand you equate youth with innovation, age with stagnation, and on the other you posit that overworking youth for below market wages is simply a cost of doing business.

ChrisNorstrom 13y ago
Youth haven't been conditioned and molded yet by their industries, they're young, stupid and make mistakes and in the process find new ways of doing things. Because they're young they don't have experience nor families to take care of, and thus will take low wages. They don't demand too many benefits, and you can work them like mules. They also flood the market and are over supplied and under demanded. The average game developer is a 31 year old white male. As soon as they start settling down and wanting to have a family they leave the industry. They burn out, and they are replaced. It's not the "right" way for every company. Valve and other companies do the opposite. But for most of the industry it is a cost of doing business. I could have chosen to be politically correct or realistic & honest. I chose realistic & honest.
- javert 13y ago
  Now that Valve has caught on to this technique, other game companies are going to have to step up their game if they want to stay competitive. Working people like mules? Pssht, that's nothing. I suggest they take some advice from advisors of PhD students. Also, I'm willing to provide consulting services if/when I graduate.
- jhawk28 13y ago
  There are laws limiting the amount a teenager can work.
- jwarkentin 13y ago
  That's a gross over-generalization of youth. Age alone does not tell you anything about intelligence, experience or the likelihood of making mistakes. There may be a general correlation, but it is not causation. You may have a 20-year-old who's been programming and contributing to open-source projects since he was 10 against a 31-year-old who's been programming since he was 27. Who has more experience? Who's more likely to make mistakes? - Age has nothing to do with it. You could say people new in the industry haven't been conditioned and molded yet. They're young in the industry and thus make stupid mistakes in the process and in the process find new ways of doing things. That would be far more accurate.

corresation 13y ago

Reading your post -- in particular the held-high observations of someone who was fired -- one would think that Valve was a relic of a company full of apparently useless seniors who are just waiting out their days until they can retire to go fishing. You know, the same Valve that is one of the most successful software companies operating, and is a company that is pretty much universally understood to have an incredible ability to execute. It's a weird conflict, really. As others have said, there is a bitter taste of manifestly unwarranted ageism in your post.

jwarkentin 13y ago

Age has nothing to do with anything. Old or young, people can be intelligent, productive and very forward thinking. It is true that many people who have been in the industry a while have found a job and technologies where they're comfortable and don't want to change; but it's just as true that many continue to move forward and try new things.