9 ms·

Is this really a serious problem? Anecdotally, 9 out of 10 visits to a coffee shop, I just get coffee and leave. 1 out of 10, I am meeting someone, usually to g

• MWil 13y ago
  my local starbucks is always freezing which makes me want to leave even if i meant to stay
  • evanspa 13y ago
    So is the one by me. When I asked the barista why, she said it helps keeps the fruit-flies away from the bakery items. I just bring a sweatshirt with me when I go.
    • textminer 13y ago
      She was being homophobic. :\
      • perishabledave 13y ago
        Really? This seems like a logical answer if taken literally.
      • pekk 13y ago
        I don't think cold affects gay people more than straight people, so probably not.
        • textminer 13y ago
          I'm gay. Was making a joke at "fruit fly". Will save the one-liners for Reddit and Facebook posts.
          • xj9 13y ago
            Wit, sarcasm, and hacker news don't mix well. :(
        • rickyconnolly 13y ago
          If anything, it affects us less. All the fake tan and glitter make us nigh-impermeable to the elements
  • bluedino 13y ago
    Starbucks is freezing in the summer, super hot in the winter (in the midwest, that is). You can't win.
    • vickytnz 13y ago
      Pretty sure they're using the McDonalds techniques of subtly edging people out. They ain't doing that by accident….
  • seanmcdirmid 13y ago
    When I'm in the states, I bring a jacket in the summer to starbucks. I actually had a problem with certain starbucks in Beijing that don't have adequate heating in the winter...my feet are just hurting after 30 or so minutes. I've mapped out all the stores with decent AC and heat now, though I switch stores seasonally.
• rcavezza 13y ago
  You're in a different segment than me. I'm sure there's a few coffee shop customer segments and most of the folks on HN probably fit into the segment that this policy will alienate. This would be beneficial for me. There's a really nice coffee shop in Brookline, MA (borders Boston and connects to the T) called Cafe Fixe. They make a great espresso. I try to go with my girlfriend every so often. If I go there and there are no seats available, I leave without making a purchase. I know the same people sit at the tiny coffee shop for hours at a time. I'm sure the business lose hundreds of dollars (if not more) per week because seating isn't available. This type of policy will probably help small specialty coffee shops more than the big chains.
• baddox 13y ago
  It sounds like you don't use (or "abuse") the facilities to the point where the owners are bothered. The problem probably stems from people who behave differently than you.
• showerst 13y ago
  'Serious' is a strong word but I have this problem all the time. 2 of my favorite coffee shops (Filter and Peregrine in DC) are really small and constantly full of people working on laptops. I love the coffee but don't take guests or coworkers there because there are never open tables to sit and chat. I know other people who avoid them entirely because having sitting space is more important to them than the coffee itself. People who stay for more than, say, an hour or two hurt turnover which is critical for smaller coffee shops that also serve food or snacks, whereas places like SBux make most of their money on people getting a quick morning fix, and can also afford bigger spaces. I'd prefer if things bifurcated, big national chains that can afford the room offer wifi, smaller local places kill it to keep turnover up. I can see how it's a lose-lose for coffee shops having to choose one group or another. Some places turn it off after, say, 3pm which is a nice compromise.
  • jseliger 13y ago
    One interesting tech solution I've seen at Argo Tea in NYC is the deployment of Wi-Fi codes on receipts: each code lasts for about half an hour or an hour.
    • thejosh 13y ago
      That's actually a good solution. Giving them codes that relate to the total cost of their receipt, so for example 1 coffee = 30 minutes, 2 = 60 so that way when you have a group you each get 30 minutes or something. Now there is a good startup idea... ;-)
      • bsimpson 13y ago
        I've seen this done in many (unmemorable) places.
      • elviejo 13y ago
        for me this is the right solution.... the market wants a place to work, have internet, drink coffee, etc. just charge for it... according to consumption (time)
    • deleted 13y ago
• beambot 13y ago
  I no longer frequent coffee shops that are (nearly) 100% occupied by "laptop squatters," as it means no seating for those of us who want to sit and chat for 10-15 minutes over coffee. </anecdotal>
• joepawl 13y ago
  I have a similar ratio, but I would welcome a time limit. Web I go its usually just to hang out for a bit, read a book, and maybe comment about the passing customers on Twitter. But if it is one of those one or two in ten times I plan to stay and there are people at every comfy chair with laptop plugged in, I'll leave without buying anything. So I guess we have opposite philosophies there. I don't think it would at all affect my patronage when I want a coffee to go.
• rhizome 13y ago
  Saturday I went to the Duboce Park Cafe in SF and all of the good tables (against the wall/window) were taken up by single laptoppers. The only available tables for us were in the middle of the room and at the counter. I even came up with the idea that they should build little walls for the tables to divide them into two single seats, like library carrels (http://rmulibrarian.wordpress.com/2010/01/09/new-library-furniture-nice-quiet-study-space/ http://rmulibrarian.wordpress.com/2010/01/09/new-library-fur...). Even so, if laptoppers had better manners, they'd take the worst seats first.
  • jrockway 13y ago
    They paid just as much for the coffee as you, and nobody was telling you you couldn't sit around for as long as you liked. First come first served seems fair to me. (I personally can't work in a coffee shop, but I'm not bothered by people who can.)
    • notacoward 13y ago
      "First come first served seems fair to me." There are multiple definitions of fairness. FCFS might be considered a fair admittance rule, but not an occupancy rule. Consider processes in a computer system. Do we let one process hog the CPU indefinitely while others are waiting? No, most usable systems will context-switch when the current process exceeds its time quantum. "First in, first out" is usually a better rule for occupancy. Applied to coffee-shop seats, that would mean that people who haven't bought anything for a long time should lose their place to people who purchased something more recently. It's only fair.
    • incision 13y ago
      I think the parent's gripe is about single people taking up entire tables that could seat a group, hence the use of "single" versus "us" and the divider suggestion.
      • jrockway 13y ago
        "Hey, mind if we join you?"
• notacoward 13y ago
  Yes, this is a real problem some places. At the closest Starbucks to me, there is practically never a free seat because of all the people camped out for hours at a time every single day. That means people with more reasonable needs, such as a place to sit for a few minutes waiting for a friend to arrive or complete an errand nearby, are out of luck. Those few are degrading the experience for many more, quite likely costing the store more than their own paltry consumption could justify (especially in a market with many alternatives). Of course, this is exactly what anyone familiar with the tragedy of the commons would have expected. Self-regulation is not nearly as common or as effective as many would have us believe. Those squatters could yield this quasi-public space to others and work from home. They choose not to, knowing full well that they are being selfish by over-consuming that shared resource. They probably even know that the free lunch will not last forever. Nonetheless they persist. The proprietors have no choice but to take matters into their own hands, protecting their own interest by setting and enforcing limits. With the right hardware it would be easy to tell which MAC address corresponds to which seat, and of course the proprietor would know when the occupant last purchased anything. That information should be sufficient to do the right thing when seats run out. ;)
  • dragonwriter 13y ago
    > That means people with more reasonable needs, such as a place to sit for a few minutes waiting for a friend to arrive or complete an errand nearby, are out of luck. I'm not sure that Starbuck's or other coffee shops view their mission as providing for the needs of people with a place to sit for a few minutes while waiting for a friend. > Those few are degrading the experience for many more, quite likely costing the store more than their own paltry consumption could justify (especially in a market with many alternatives). I somehow doubt this. Most of the complaints I see is that people who want to do things other than purchase goods (i.e., use the coffee shop as a place to hold meetings or wait for people) feel that they are unable to do those things as effectbecause other people are doing things other than purchasing goods (e.g., camping out with their laptops.) I don't see much reason to believe that there is a whole lot of impact one way or another on the stores' ability to actually sell coffee, snacks, or other goods.
• MartinCron 13y ago
  There are a handful of coffee shops here in Seattle (Zoka immediately comes to mind) that I generally avoid because they're so full of people who use them as de-facto offices. That's not a huge loss for me, as there are plenty of other perfectly good coffee shops around. Maybe this is a real problem in inferior cities.
  • dandelany 13y ago
    It may not a real problem for you, but it is a real problem for some people in your city - namely, the owners of the coffee shops you tend to avoid!
  • chronomex 13y ago
    Maybe you should consider avoiding Zoka entirely: http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/ucm272893.htm http://www.fda.gov/ICECI/EnforcementActions/WarningLetters/u...
    • MartinCron 13y ago
      Yikes.
• verelo 13y ago
  "The market" will resolve this problem. Just watch what happens when Starbucks not only tries to charge you $8 for a poorly made coffee, but also doesn't let you work there. I suspect this wont actually happen, and also believe most of us only go to these establishments because a) they're everywhere / convenient, b) they let you sit there with a laptop and least importantly c) they have coffee Good luck, i'll just go somewhere else.
• incision 13y ago
  >Is this really a serious problem? Anecdotally, 9 out of 10 visits to a coffee shop, I just get coffee and leave. I operate much the same way, but now that I think about it I might be inclined to hang around for a moment if I could ever actually find a seat. Here in DC, the coffee shop as office seems pretty common.
• ben1040 13y ago
  >What's the secret sauce that makes Starbucks so successful? They made it a comfy place to hang out...the "3rd place" between home and work where you can go and feel welcomed. Starbucks even gives you free refills on coffee (plain old brewed coffee, not any more expensive drink) if you pay with their combination prepaid/loyalty card. Clearly Starbucks seems to have no problem with you staying there for quite a while, so long as you do it often.
• bernardom 13y ago
  Yes. "He originally worried his decision would kill business, but he found his revenue went up about 30%." -TFA
• Shivetya 13y ago
  I am just happy Starbucks banned smoking around their stores. The side effect is that I have seen some laptop users actually outside! Locally in Atlanta I only see the problem get bad when school is in, then some of the various coffee shops become Apple show rooms. Its like a clique that has last longer than I expected, but I am a generation or two removed.