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> if it only gets this way with money, I'm glad to spend it. I'd be perfectly okay with that if you only spent yours, not mine. Since when has socialism and pl

by drchaos 13y ago

> if it only gets this way with money, I'm glad to spend it. I'd be perfectly okay with that if you only spent yours, not mine. Since when has socialism and planned economy become acceptable on HN?

Daishiman 13y ago
Socialism and planned economy seem to be working pretty damn well and leading to countries with much higher standards of living and social metrics than those which do not. Perhaps we should ask since when is living in a bubble and declaring communitarian measures as failures acceptable in HN.
- pdeuchler 13y ago
  I can't tell if you're trolling or not... Starting with the obvious, the USSR and China were/are two of the largest experiments in socialism/planned economies. The USSR failed pretty spectacularly, while China's communistic policies are continually losing out to the spread of capitalism within it's own borders. Meanwhile, in Europe, some of the more socialistic countries (Greece, for example) are failing economically while a strongly capitalistic (comparatively) Germany is continually having to bail them out. I really don't see any argument that supports your claims, though I'd like to point out the answer is not pure socialism or pure capitalism. It's a happy medium, the million dollar question is exactly where that medium resides. (Please don't respond with outliers like the resource rich Scandinavian countries that have small, extremely heterogenous populations)
  - Daishiman 13y ago
    Okay, take Germany: fully subsidized education, high taxation rate, socialized health care, important subsidies to public infrastructure. England: public, socialized health care and social services. Latin American countries: despite my personal opposition to many of the so-called populist governments, the trend in the last 10 years has been a reversion of neoliberal policies towards more social services and public investment, and it has been succesful in, at the very least, reversing 15 years of damage by American-imposed neoliberal policies. The best the US has done in the past times is to reduce the amount of spending in social services and public infrastructure, creating the highest level of income inequality in the last few decades. Countries following the same policies are going the same way: a small cadre of extremely wealthy elites and a massive level of poverty elsewhere, with a minuscule middle class.
tstactplsignore 13y ago
Right, because the Official Religion of HN is Ayn Randism, in case anyone didn't get the memo.
apalmer 13y ago
Acceptable? What on earth are you talking about? Do you think because some people use a news board they all of a sudden have to have the same world view? Further the Germans who have had democracy have voted for (a kind of) socialism and (a kind of) planned economy for the last 60 years, and they are in the top 5 healthiest economies of the world (although not largest), and their long term prospects with regards to manufacturing and exportation are much better than the US. Are you a german citizen?
- pdeuchler 13y ago
  I don't think you're using "socialism"[1] or "planned economy"[2] correctly. There's a large difference between a "mixed economy"[3] and "planned"/"socialism". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy

by drchaos 13y ago

> if it only gets this way with money, I'm glad to spend it. I'd be perfectly okay with that if you only spent yours, not mine. Since when has socialism and planned economy become acceptable on HN?

Daishiman 13y ago

Socialism and planned economy seem to be working pretty damn well and leading to countries with much higher standards of living and social metrics than those which do not. Perhaps we should ask since when is living in a bubble and declaring communitarian measures as failures acceptable in HN.

pdeuchler 13y ago
I can't tell if you're trolling or not... Starting with the obvious, the USSR and China were/are two of the largest experiments in socialism/planned economies. The USSR failed pretty spectacularly, while China's communistic policies are continually losing out to the spread of capitalism within it's own borders. Meanwhile, in Europe, some of the more socialistic countries (Greece, for example) are failing economically while a strongly capitalistic (comparatively) Germany is continually having to bail them out. I really don't see any argument that supports your claims, though I'd like to point out the answer is not pure socialism or pure capitalism. It's a happy medium, the million dollar question is exactly where that medium resides. (Please don't respond with outliers like the resource rich Scandinavian countries that have small, extremely heterogenous populations)
- Daishiman 13y ago
  Okay, take Germany: fully subsidized education, high taxation rate, socialized health care, important subsidies to public infrastructure. England: public, socialized health care and social services. Latin American countries: despite my personal opposition to many of the so-called populist governments, the trend in the last 10 years has been a reversion of neoliberal policies towards more social services and public investment, and it has been succesful in, at the very least, reversing 15 years of damage by American-imposed neoliberal policies. The best the US has done in the past times is to reduce the amount of spending in social services and public infrastructure, creating the highest level of income inequality in the last few decades. Countries following the same policies are going the same way: a small cadre of extremely wealthy elites and a massive level of poverty elsewhere, with a minuscule middle class.

tstactplsignore 13y ago

Right, because the Official Religion of HN is Ayn Randism, in case anyone didn't get the memo.

apalmer 13y ago

Acceptable? What on earth are you talking about? Do you think because some people use a news board they all of a sudden have to have the same world view? Further the Germans who have had democracy have voted for (a kind of) socialism and (a kind of) planned economy for the last 60 years, and they are in the top 5 healthiest economies of the world (although not largest), and their long term prospects with regards to manufacturing and exportation are much better than the US. Are you a german citizen?

pdeuchler 13y ago
I don't think you're using "socialism"[1] or "planned economy"[2] correctly. There's a large difference between a "mixed economy"[3] and "planned"/"socialism". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_economy [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed_economy