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> Who the hell wants to deal with owning and paying for a car for things like hopping over to the grocery store when they can just phone one up, have it take th

> Who the hell wants to deal with owning and paying for a car for things like hopping over to the grocery store when they can just phone one up, have it take them, and then pick them up. Well, I don't know, everyone? Is it the case that everywhere people are yearning for more taxi service, or to own their own vehicles? Why does "making cars better" result in lowered demand for cars? Is that how it worked for cellphones? Microwaves? Televisions? Anything? Let's try your argument for cellphones: they're so good and cheap now that people can share them. We could put one in a booth on every corner, and people could just rent them when they needed one. We could call them "payphones". Maybe we'll try it for washing machines: As washing machines got better and cheaper, people yearned to have fewer of them, shared, in a centralized facility. That's why no one owns a washing machine nowadays and we all just go to laundromats when necessary. Right?

larubbio 13y ago
I think you are confusing "demand for cars" with "demand for what a car provides", i.e. transportation from one location to another. A driverless car isn't necessarily "making cars better" but rather making transportation easier. So the demand for transport may increase while demand for individual car ownership may decrease. Personally I don't think I'm in favor of a driverless car, and I certainly can't imagine the impact it they will have.
- Avshalom 13y ago
  Actually a car provides transportation from one location to another right fucking now If you have to wait 15 minutes for a car to show up it's no better than the bus.
  - nickik 13y ago
    Lets just ignore all the data that suggests that you will have to spend 15min looking for a parking space.
BorgHunter 13y ago
> Is it the case that everywhere people are yearning for more taxi service, or to own their own vehicles? Everywhere? You can't make generalizations like that, because there isn't a global trend. In developing countries, demand for car ownership is up, because of increasing affluence and the poor state of infrastructure in those countries. In developed countries, demand for car ownership is down, because of halting suburbanization, increasing awareness of expenses and externalities of car ownership, and availability of comparable alternatives. This is most apparent in Europe, but the long-term trend is downward in North America as well. As for your analogies, they do not seem very apt. A major benefit to cell phone ownership is the ability to be contacted by or to contact people at any time, which a payphone does not provide. A major benefit to washing machine ownership is the ability to do laundry without schlepping your heavy clothes three blocks to the laundromat. The major benefit to car ownership—point to point transportation, on demand—would be provided by a competent robotaxi service. It won't kill car ownership, but for a significant number of people, robotaxis would provide everything they need out of a transportation, at a fraction of the cost. Contrary to what you've been stating, there is precedent for replacing goods with services. Quite recent precedent, in fact. How many people do you know who subscribe to a service like Netflix? Of those people, do you think their consumption of DVDs (and, prior to that, VHS tapes) went up or down once they got Netflix? What about music: How many people are buying physical CDs these days, do you think, compared to in 2000? Sometimes a centralized service is superior, sometimes it isn't. The market will decide. Between car ownership and robotaxis, I know which one I'd choose. There are a lot of people in this thread who agree with me. I think your "I don't know, everyone?" is entirely unjustified and I think you're vastly underestimating the frustration and expense involved in car ownership for a large number of people.
- toasterlovin 13y ago
  In North America, where I live, what I see everywhere around me is that people are literally putting themselves in financial jeopardy to buy the largest, shiniest, most luxurious car they can possibly make payments on. So, I have to ask: do you have some stats for this long-term downward trend in car ownership you speak of in North America?
  - 13y ago
CBC440 13y ago
Taxis are incredibly expensive compared to a car on a per mile basis. $1.00 is considered pretty cheap for a taxi while owning a Honda Civic averages out after all costs to around $0.35 per mile if you drive 15k per year. Now spread the registration, property tax, depreciation, and maintenance among 5 people and that cost is down to $0.17 per mile for 75k miles per year. I got these numbers from Kelley Blue Book if you're interested. So in the end, you can run a 100% margin on top of the overhead of the car itself and still make fiscal sense for consumers.

larubbio 13y ago

I think you are confusing "demand for cars" with "demand for what a car provides", i.e. transportation from one location to another. A driverless car isn't necessarily "making cars better" but rather making transportation easier. So the demand for transport may increase while demand for individual car ownership may decrease. Personally I don't think I'm in favor of a driverless car, and I certainly can't imagine the impact it they will have.

Avshalom 13y ago
Actually a car provides transportation from one location to another right fucking now If you have to wait 15 minutes for a car to show up it's no better than the bus.
- nickik 13y ago
  Lets just ignore all the data that suggests that you will have to spend 15min looking for a parking space.

BorgHunter 13y ago

> Is it the case that everywhere people are yearning for more taxi service, or to own their own vehicles? Everywhere? You can't make generalizations like that, because there isn't a global trend. In developing countries, demand for car ownership is up, because of increasing affluence and the poor state of infrastructure in those countries. In developed countries, demand for car ownership is down, because of halting suburbanization, increasing awareness of expenses and externalities of car ownership, and availability of comparable alternatives. This is most apparent in Europe, but the long-term trend is downward in North America as well. As for your analogies, they do not seem very apt. A major benefit to cell phone ownership is the ability to be contacted by or to contact people at any time, which a payphone does not provide. A major benefit to washing machine ownership is the ability to do laundry without schlepping your heavy clothes three blocks to the laundromat. The major benefit to car ownership—point to point transportation, on demand—would be provided by a competent robotaxi service. It won't kill car ownership, but for a significant number of people, robotaxis would provide everything they need out of a transportation, at a fraction of the cost. Contrary to what you've been stating, there is precedent for replacing goods with services. Quite recent precedent, in fact. How many people do you know who subscribe to a service like Netflix? Of those people, do you think their consumption of DVDs (and, prior to that, VHS tapes) went up or down once they got Netflix? What about music: How many people are buying physical CDs these days, do you think, compared to in 2000? Sometimes a centralized service is superior, sometimes it isn't. The market will decide. Between car ownership and robotaxis, I know which one I'd choose. There are a lot of people in this thread who agree with me. I think your "I don't know, everyone?" is entirely unjustified and I think you're vastly underestimating the frustration and expense involved in car ownership for a large number of people.

toasterlovin 13y ago
In North America, where I live, what I see everywhere around me is that people are literally putting themselves in financial jeopardy to buy the largest, shiniest, most luxurious car they can possibly make payments on. So, I have to ask: do you have some stats for this long-term downward trend in car ownership you speak of in North America?
- 13y ago

CBC440 13y ago

Taxis are incredibly expensive compared to a car on a per mile basis. $1.00 is considered pretty cheap for a taxi while owning a Honda Civic averages out after all costs to around $0.35 per mile if you drive 15k per year. Now spread the registration, property tax, depreciation, and maintenance among 5 people and that cost is down to $0.17 per mile for 75k miles per year. I got these numbers from Kelley Blue Book if you're interested. So in the end, you can run a 100% margin on top of the overhead of the car itself and still make fiscal sense for consumers.