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Privacy Group to Ask Supreme Court to Stop N.S.A.’s Phone Spying Program

130 points by salimmadjd 13y ago

contingencies 13y ago
This is it, people. The last gasp of privacy.
- ncallaway 13y ago
  It was good while it lasted...
- ihsw 13y ago
  Nonsense. Even after this seemingly decapitation of the concept of privacy, there is still minutiae and trivialities about privacy. For example, should all personal information be stored in a common encryption format mandated by the state?
- MattyRad 13y ago
  ... I won't hold my breath.
beedogs 13y ago
I shudder to think of what sort of horrible, wrongheaded response we'll get out of this from Antonin Scalia.
- salk 13y ago
  Don't be so quick to judge. He wrote a pretty good dissent on DNA collection. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-207_d18e.pdf http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-207_d18e.pdf http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-13/opinions/39952025_1_dna-sample-dna-collection-dna-test http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-13/opinions/39952...
uptown 13y ago
"All of the current 11 judges, who serve seven-year terms, were appointed to the special court by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. ..." So they're asking the Supreme Court to stop the spying program facilitated by the secret court, which is staffed by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.
- eevilspock 13y ago
  I'm not a fan of Roberts, but so what? Staffing the court is apparently part of his duty as Chief Justice, and as such does pose a conflict of interest with this case. Carrying out his job does not imply any point of view regarding the constitutionality or ethics of the spying program. He doesn't get to refuse to appoint judges as the law requires whatever his opinion. He only gets to judge things that are officially challenged in his court, and even then only after reviewing evidence and arguments from both sides.
  - uptown 13y ago
    Just doing his job, right? Are you seriously trying to imply that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, literally THE authority on interpreting the Constitution, as an American, has no connections and is powerless to influence the world in any way outside of the court cases placed before him? Think of it this way - if he felt what he was being asked to do was a violation of the Constitution, wouldn't his participation make him a co-conspirator to that crime?
seferphier 13y ago
I am really curious how this would turn out.
TruthElixirX 13y ago
Maybe if people stop begging the government this wouldn't happen in the first place.
- jayfuerstenberg 13y ago
  Technology, not policy, has always been what limits the degree of government surveillance. Concerned private citizens need to start using technology too. They need to learn about encryption and products to protect their privacy. Of course voice yourself to your government but don't expect them to roll over and say "Okay, we'll stop".
- noarchy 13y ago
  This. Begging the government to stop is tantamount to giving consent to them having power over us to begin with. It is time to withdraw the consent of the governed.
perlpimp 13y ago
From what i understand there is no actual documentation of Verizon handing over the records. And all employees are gaged and not allowed to reveal that this happend. From discussion absent are the possible punishments if one disobeys FISA court order. What ground does it stand on?
DigitalSea 13y ago
As people who have been filing F.O.I.A requests for any personal information the NSA may have gained access to and stored without their permission will tell you: you won't succeed. I think the N.S.A spying program is here to stay, people eventually will give up complaining about it and move on with their lives which is what the Government is betting on will happen. Considering the amount of money that has been undoubtedly spent on this spy program while the unemployment rate rises, taxes are increased, food and fuel keep on getting more expensive I doubt the Government will just give up control that easily especially when you're talking of potentially billions already being spent on this state of the art spying program. All asking the Supreme court to prevent the N.S.A spying on phone calls will result in is getting yourself added to a priority N.S.A watchlist.
- mtgx 13y ago
  For the "home of the brave" Americans sure don't sound a lot like it. People have fought a lot worse in the past, and Americans seem to be like "meh, I'm too bored to fight this". Good job, America. But you're forgetting one thing. This is not "how things will be", if you let it happen. Oh no. This is just but the very beginning. If you let it happen to you, things will become 10x, 100x worse in the future. And then even you, individually, will feel the oppression of the government. But let's see how you'll fight it then, without violence. At least right now there may be a chance to do it without any violence - you know, if you weren't too "bored" with it.
  - DigitalSea 13y ago
    I guess I am basing my logic off of the occupy protests. The occupy protests got a lot of attention and even though they're still going on in some places, you don't really hear about them any more (not even on conspiracy theory peddling sites like Above Top Secret). The goal was to draw attention to big banks abusing their power and not changing their ways, a couple of years on and all of that protesting only briefly brought attention to the big banking system, but nothing changed. Some people moved money to credit unions, but the big banks like BoA are still around, the protests achieved nothing. In many ways there are similarities between the occupy situation and the N.S.A secret spying program only people are protesting online and bugging their representatives most of which didn't even know about the program until it was publicly leaked. I am a firm believer in standing up for something, especially when it's the Government wronging it's citizens, but I think this whole situation goes deeper than any public opinion truly can penetrate and change. I think the power in this situation like lays with other countries acting on what has been revealed, but most are too afraid to stand up to the US. It's times like these you realise why the US has one of the worlds best funded military regimes in the world because when SHTF who is truly going to stand up to the bigger military entity?
Ankaios 13y ago
Thank you, EPIC. In vacuuming up and blindly storing all of the descriptive data about phone calls, I am impressed that the NSA and its superiors may have managed to carry out "unreasonable seizure" without "unreasonable search." I'd be even more impressed to see an injunction against it.

130 points by salimmadjd 13y ago

contingencies 13y ago

This is it, people. The last gasp of privacy.

ncallaway 13y ago
It was good while it lasted...
ihsw 13y ago
Nonsense. Even after this seemingly decapitation of the concept of privacy, there is still minutiae and trivialities about privacy. For example, should all personal information be stored in a common encryption format mandated by the state?
MattyRad 13y ago
... I won't hold my breath.

beedogs 13y ago

I shudder to think of what sort of horrible, wrongheaded response we'll get out of this from Antonin Scalia.

salk 13y ago
Don't be so quick to judge. He wrote a pretty good dissent on DNA collection. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-207_d18e.pdf http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-207_d18e.pdf http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-13/opinions/39952025_1_dna-sample-dna-collection-dna-test http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-06-13/opinions/39952...

uptown 13y ago

"All of the current 11 judges, who serve seven-year terms, were appointed to the special court by Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. ..." So they're asking the Supreme Court to stop the spying program facilitated by the secret court, which is staffed by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

eevilspock 13y ago
I'm not a fan of Roberts, but so what? Staffing the court is apparently part of his duty as Chief Justice, and as such does pose a conflict of interest with this case. Carrying out his job does not imply any point of view regarding the constitutionality or ethics of the spying program. He doesn't get to refuse to appoint judges as the law requires whatever his opinion. He only gets to judge things that are officially challenged in his court, and even then only after reviewing evidence and arguments from both sides.
- uptown 13y ago
  Just doing his job, right? Are you seriously trying to imply that the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, literally THE authority on interpreting the Constitution, as an American, has no connections and is powerless to influence the world in any way outside of the court cases placed before him? Think of it this way - if he felt what he was being asked to do was a violation of the Constitution, wouldn't his participation make him a co-conspirator to that crime?

seferphier 13y ago

I am really curious how this would turn out.

TruthElixirX 13y ago

Maybe if people stop begging the government this wouldn't happen in the first place.

jayfuerstenberg 13y ago
Technology, not policy, has always been what limits the degree of government surveillance. Concerned private citizens need to start using technology too. They need to learn about encryption and products to protect their privacy. Of course voice yourself to your government but don't expect them to roll over and say "Okay, we'll stop".
noarchy 13y ago
This. Begging the government to stop is tantamount to giving consent to them having power over us to begin with. It is time to withdraw the consent of the governed.

perlpimp 13y ago

From what i understand there is no actual documentation of Verizon handing over the records. And all employees are gaged and not allowed to reveal that this happend. From discussion absent are the possible punishments if one disobeys FISA court order. What ground does it stand on?

DigitalSea 13y ago

As people who have been filing F.O.I.A requests for any personal information the NSA may have gained access to and stored without their permission will tell you: you won't succeed. I think the N.S.A spying program is here to stay, people eventually will give up complaining about it and move on with their lives which is what the Government is betting on will happen. Considering the amount of money that has been undoubtedly spent on this spy program while the unemployment rate rises, taxes are increased, food and fuel keep on getting more expensive I doubt the Government will just give up control that easily especially when you're talking of potentially billions already being spent on this state of the art spying program. All asking the Supreme court to prevent the N.S.A spying on phone calls will result in is getting yourself added to a priority N.S.A watchlist.

mtgx 13y ago
For the "home of the brave" Americans sure don't sound a lot like it. People have fought a lot worse in the past, and Americans seem to be like "meh, I'm too bored to fight this". Good job, America. But you're forgetting one thing. This is not "how things will be", if you let it happen. Oh no. This is just but the very beginning. If you let it happen to you, things will become 10x, 100x worse in the future. And then even you, individually, will feel the oppression of the government. But let's see how you'll fight it then, without violence. At least right now there may be a chance to do it without any violence - you know, if you weren't too "bored" with it.
- DigitalSea 13y ago
  I guess I am basing my logic off of the occupy protests. The occupy protests got a lot of attention and even though they're still going on in some places, you don't really hear about them any more (not even on conspiracy theory peddling sites like Above Top Secret). The goal was to draw attention to big banks abusing their power and not changing their ways, a couple of years on and all of that protesting only briefly brought attention to the big banking system, but nothing changed. Some people moved money to credit unions, but the big banks like BoA are still around, the protests achieved nothing. In many ways there are similarities between the occupy situation and the N.S.A secret spying program only people are protesting online and bugging their representatives most of which didn't even know about the program until it was publicly leaked. I am a firm believer in standing up for something, especially when it's the Government wronging it's citizens, but I think this whole situation goes deeper than any public opinion truly can penetrate and change. I think the power in this situation like lays with other countries acting on what has been revealed, but most are too afraid to stand up to the US. It's times like these you realise why the US has one of the worlds best funded military regimes in the world because when SHTF who is truly going to stand up to the bigger military entity?

Ankaios 13y ago

Thank you, EPIC. In vacuuming up and blindly storing all of the descriptive data about phone calls, I am impressed that the NSA and its superiors may have managed to carry out "unreasonable seizure" without "unreasonable search." I'd be even more impressed to see an injunction against it.