4 ms·

Here is graphical comparison of safe landing and Asiana crash: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOhIDCWCUAApHFV.jpg:large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BOhIDCWCUAApHFV

• pcl 13y ago
  Interesting. I wonder what the Asiana's descent profile looks like compared to the average and some outliers of other safe 777 landings at SFO. Did you generate that image? If not, what was the source?
  • Lusake 13y ago
    I found picture on twitter, it is generated by FlightAware - live flight tracking (http://www.flightaware.com http://www.flightaware.com)
  • gklitt 13y ago
    I saw another image online, which compared the descent profiles of the past week of landings for the same flight. It showed that the July 6th landing was very close to the normal descent profile, and the July 5th landing was actually the outlier -- it had an unusually shallow glide slope. Unfortunately I can't find the image right now, but perhaps someone else knows where it is and can provide it?
    • vladd 13y ago
      There are some at http://flyingprofessors.net/what-happened-to-asiana-airlines-flight-214-2/ http://flyingprofessors.net/what-happened-to-asiana-airlines...
      • RockyMcNuts 13y ago
        like this link better than the OP which is fairly uninformed speculation ...
        • RockyMcNuts 13y ago
          some video of the crash - kind of looks like it was skimming the waves in ground effect trying to go around http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2013/07/07/vo-plane-sf-plane-crash-on-cam.courtesy-fred-hayes http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2013/07/07/vo-plane-sf-p... I stand by the parent having some useful data and analysis, and the OP being totally speculation, and in many respects uninformed. - number 1, if you say 'loss of power', makes sense as a possible cause. if you say 'icing in the FOHE', it's like saying the murder was done with a yellow pistol. nothing points to that, no icing conditions (humidity/temperature), and of course not same engine as the previous plane crash attributed to that - number 2, you can't be unaware of an ILS out of op, you wouldn't be cleared for the ILS approach, you wouldn't be using the ILS on visual approach, you would be cued there's no signal, you wouldn't hear the outer marker, etc. etc. - number 3, auto-throttle, well again, if you say malfunction in power setting, OK could make sense, if you get as specific as 'confliction with autopilot/auto throttle' that's a purple pistol. Clearly not on cat3 autoland, you're basically saying pilot forgot to set throttle in the right configuration for visual approach and landing. - number 4, pilot error/bad approach, can't argue with that. the story is what's interesting, eg undiagnosed walleye vision, ate the bad fish etc.
          • VLM 13y ago
            "- number 4, pilot error/bad approach, can't argue with that. the story is what's interesting" Pilot induced oscillation on a really big scale. Coming in way too hot, slam down, whoops way over corrected, now coming in too low, whoops ran outta air and time to correct. Coming in way too hot, now are you better off trying to salvage or go around and get fired? Different nations airlines have differing policies on this...
            • bajsejohannes 13y ago
              Do you really risk getting fired for a go around? I mean, I can see that happening if you do it way more than other pilots, but just doing it once? (For the record, I have no idea how these things works, it's just very surprising)
  • joezydeco 13y ago
    From a reddit comment[1]: "PPrune[2] also had a guy weighing in saying that when he flew for a Korean carrier he saw guys try to do banana-shaped approaches to get a smoother landing. Wouldn't be the first time the Koreans have pulled something like this." [1] http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1hrewx/asiana_airlines_boeing_777_has_crashed_at_the_san/caxb2tc http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1hrewx/asiana_air... [2] http://www.pprune.org http://www.pprune.org
  • bajsejohannes 13y ago
    Poking around flighaware's website, I found data sources that could be used to make a better graph: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214/history/20130625/0730Z/RKSI/KSFO/tracklog http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214/history/20130625/0... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214/history/20130626/0730Z/RKSI/KSFO/tracklog http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214/history/20130626/0... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214/history/20130706/0730Z/RKSI/KSFO/tracklog http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR214/history/20130706/0... Nothing like URLs with obvious patterns!
• proexploit 13y ago
  Worth noting that with a modification like that, it looks like it actually gives extra space for landing, not less. So that piece probably isn't a factor at all.
  • mikeyouse 13y ago
    Runway 28L at SFO is 10,800 feet long in its current configuration. The spec for the 777 is 5,800 feet of runway for landing[1]. There is obviously a fair amount of weight, wind dependency in determining the minimum required length, but the runway was almost 100% longer than was necessary. [1] http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/aboutana/corporate/galleryclassi/1983/772.html http://www.ana.co.jp/eng/aboutana/corporate/galleryclassi/19...
• bajsejohannes 13y ago
  This is comparing one single safe landing to a crash landing. Does that gain us new insights? Not really. For that, we'd need the crash landing compared to the average landing, and also to other (safe and unsafe) extreme landings of the past. And to get all Tufte of the graphics: Most of this is chart junk. The 3d view only serveres to hide information, and overlaying the paths (in 2d) would actually let us compare more accurately.
  • omegant 13y ago
    Average aircraft approach is a 3º glide slope. And usually all of them look exactly like that (only minor deviations due to the wind). If that chart is true is easy to see that they where high on the (non working) glidslope.