6 ms·

This rings so true. When I had graduated college I was in a 3 week lull between graduation and a job around January when I was struck with a kidney stone. No he

This rings so true. When I had graduated college I was in a 3 week lull between graduation and a job around January when I was struck with a kidney stone. No health insurance. I took a trip to the ER around 10pm one evening in agonizing pain and was treated like a drug addict. I wasn't even triaged for over 2 hours (peak flu season) and everyone acted like I was just trying to score pain meds. Finally, after 3.5 hours, I was sent for a CT and only after the CT confirmed a stone was I given non-narcotic pain meds (Ketorolac) and send home to wait it out. Total time in the actual ER was ~1.5 hours (of a >5 hour trip) for a hospital administered dose of an NSAID only after a CT scan. $4800. Took me over 2 years to pay all of it off. It pretty much wrecked my personal finances (threats from collection agencies finally forced me to put it all on my credit card). I've been jaded about hospitals ever since. I've also had another stone in the years since and was diagnosed with a ~$100 sonogram. And I used acetaminophen and ibuprofen to manage the pain for a couple weeks. I'm still shocked that I had to wait so long and go through such a costly imaging procedure to justify a short prescription of a non-narcotic pain reliever. I could go on another rant on an intelligent adult not being allowed to order a simple blood panel for self quantification.

BadCookie 13y ago
Oh, but you can order your own blood tests. I've done it before. Google "order own blood tests." I've used Health One before to run a test that I wanted done. I had insurance, but I didn't want to go through the awkwardness of convincing my doctor that it was worth doing, and I think it was only $40.
- leetrout 13y ago
  Thanks very much for dropping that name. I had looked once before but somehow missed Health One. I was specifically looking for testosterone and thyroid previously (before starting a new training plan) and they seemed to be off limits with the providers I had located. Awesome to see those listed and a participating lab within 10 miles of my home.
  - clicks 13y ago
    I think you guys are on to something. I choose to fix my own car when it has small issues, I choose to fix my own computer when things go haywire (whether it's a hardware or software problem), I choose to install/fix issues relating to the washing machine & dryer, furniture, faucets, etc. etc. To get to the point where I could fix these things I had to learn various things from others, from reading up, and so on. I can do that quite easily when it comes to my own body too. Only in the most extraordinary of circumstances will I seek medical healthcare. To relate this to HN: make systems that facilitate acquisition of knowledge, conducting tests, studying those tests, etc. Maybe hook the other end of the system to a database of vetted doctors in India and China who could study the test results and suggest future options? By golly does this industry need some disruption. Please make it happen guys.
    - malandrew 13y ago
      Unfortunately you still can't fill out your own prescriptions diagnosing your own problem, so you'll still end up paying for a doctor's visit if something is wrong.
- jlgreco 13y ago
  The ability to shop around is great and all, but hardly something I could reasonably expect of somebody currently suffering from kidney stones, or worse (if you can even imagine a worse state).
  - clicks 13y ago
    I think that has a lot to do with upbringing and culture. We here at HN know a lot about computers and programming -- even some of us for whom it isn't even our profession. We learned a lot of this stuff because it was a hobby. Several of my real-life friends are this way when it comes to a lot of medical stuff -- despite not being in the medical profession they still know all sorts of odd things you'd expect just doctors to know just because they have been so extensively reading up on their own. So, I guess what I'm saying is, remember the post a few months back preaching that we should 'all' learn programming? I say we should all learn more about our bodies. If and when we do, that very education will probably affect what we consume, how often we exercise, etc., ultimately improving our lives either way.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      If you have the premonition to research it ahead of time and keep updated on it, then good for you. I suspect that the people who do that are the real minority, not HN type people. Once you are actually in a jam... trust me, you are not going to be spending your time googling for shit when you are in a bad way with kidney stones. Lobbed off a limb with your table saw? By all means, go check the internet first ...but not with kidney stones...
    - sentenza 13y ago
      I think his point was that some injuries might incapacitate you to such a degree that shopping around is not an option.
      - jlgreco 13y ago
        Exactly right. Shopping around is entirely impractical many, if not most, emergencies (and that is assuming that you are actually conscious in the first place.)
ars 13y ago
> Took me over 2 years to pay all of it off. It pretty much wrecked my personal finances Why did you pay it then? Tell the hospital you can't pay and move on with life. If you do well financially pay it then. > threats from collection agencies finally forced me to put it all on my credit card I don't understand this. Why do you even answer the phone when they call? Or open the letters they send? Just ignore them, and when you are ready to pay, then pay the hospital directly. Completely ignore the credit collection agencies. They are utterly impotent, especially when it comes to medical debt which has no effect on your credit score. I mean it - completely ignore them. I don't mean answer the phone, listen to the threats and ignore it. I mean utterly ignore them. You have caller ID. Any letters get placed unopened in a box.
- mathgladiator 13y ago
  > Why did you pay it then? Hospitals can be rather unhospitable. They want their money, and they don't exactly hire the nicest/knowledgeable people. I routinely get collection calls for someone else based on this issue (who either had my number prior to me getting my phone OR the person gave them my number randomly), and I wouldn't invite them over for dinner.
  - ars 13y ago
    Just because they want their money doesn't mean you have to pay it. Why allow them to decide what you do?
    - mathgladiator 13y ago
      My point is that they apply pressure, and it's only natural that people will pay to get it off
      - ars 13y ago
        I got that. My point is why do you allow them to apply pressure? Simply ignore them.
- 13y ago
zanny 13y ago
I broke my knee this spring but didn't go to a hospital on my families request because the last time I broke a bone I reset it myself and the hospital still charged $8k. I still have blood in the joint, but I can't get it drained because no doctor will stick a needle in without an x-ray, but those are expensive. So I'm waiting till I move out and get a full time position in a bigger city to get health care to have it fixed. Probably going to have arthritis at 40....
- ars 13y ago
  I don't know where you live, but here there is urgent care that will do everything regarding a single injury for a flat fee of $150, including x-rays and follow ups up to one week. Look for something like that where you live. They treat uncomplicated broken bones too for the same flat fee.
- lostlogin 13y ago
  If there is anyway you can get in to see someone with a pre-arranged plan of payment please do. A debt that takes some years to pay off is just that. But a messed up joint may be causing permanent damage (as you well know judging by your comment). I'd be saying that you need an MRI too btw. It may be worth ringing around and seeing what you can get it for. If you ask to speak to the practice manager you might get lucky. Source: I'm a radiographer, our practice manager would check with the managing director would would almost certainly cut you a break - he is a soft touch. I'm not in the US I'm sorry to say.
- sentenza 13y ago
  If you know that arthritis is coming, adjust now and move to Germany (or another similar place). Waiting times for specialists might be a little longer, but you (=everybody) will be treated for treatable diseases and injuries. What you have to do, of course, is to move here legally (work visum?).
  - malandrew 13y ago
    How easy is it to move to Germany as an experienced software developer and get a job there? I know Berlin has a large startup community, but is it large enough to absorb as many software developers that show up there like it is in Silicon Valley? Do you already have to know German or can you get by with learning the language after making the move?
mathgladiator 13y ago
This is why I got my arse in gear and "got a real" job. As I age, I realize that if I was horse, then I wouldn't be betting on myself.
robbiep 13y ago
Thats borderline malpractice, or perhaps more properly, very aggressive monetizing practice: a stone, or any renal cause, is always investigated initially with ultrasound. I wonder if there is a role for disputing charges on the basis of unnecessary investigations (especially in the ED setting) based on a standard of care- sort of opposite a medical malpractice suit. But I'm in Australia and don't need to worry about having 2 years worth of debt from an emergency illness..

BadCookie 13y ago

Oh, but you can order your own blood tests. I've done it before. Google "order own blood tests." I've used Health One before to run a test that I wanted done. I had insurance, but I didn't want to go through the awkwardness of convincing my doctor that it was worth doing, and I think it was only $40.

leetrout 13y ago
Thanks very much for dropping that name. I had looked once before but somehow missed Health One. I was specifically looking for testosterone and thyroid previously (before starting a new training plan) and they seemed to be off limits with the providers I had located. Awesome to see those listed and a participating lab within 10 miles of my home.
- clicks 13y ago
  I think you guys are on to something. I choose to fix my own car when it has small issues, I choose to fix my own computer when things go haywire (whether it's a hardware or software problem), I choose to install/fix issues relating to the washing machine & dryer, furniture, faucets, etc. etc. To get to the point where I could fix these things I had to learn various things from others, from reading up, and so on. I can do that quite easily when it comes to my own body too. Only in the most extraordinary of circumstances will I seek medical healthcare. To relate this to HN: make systems that facilitate acquisition of knowledge, conducting tests, studying those tests, etc. Maybe hook the other end of the system to a database of vetted doctors in India and China who could study the test results and suggest future options? By golly does this industry need some disruption. Please make it happen guys.
  - malandrew 13y ago
    Unfortunately you still can't fill out your own prescriptions diagnosing your own problem, so you'll still end up paying for a doctor's visit if something is wrong.
jlgreco 13y ago
The ability to shop around is great and all, but hardly something I could reasonably expect of somebody currently suffering from kidney stones, or worse (if you can even imagine a worse state).
- clicks 13y ago
  I think that has a lot to do with upbringing and culture. We here at HN know a lot about computers and programming -- even some of us for whom it isn't even our profession. We learned a lot of this stuff because it was a hobby. Several of my real-life friends are this way when it comes to a lot of medical stuff -- despite not being in the medical profession they still know all sorts of odd things you'd expect just doctors to know just because they have been so extensively reading up on their own. So, I guess what I'm saying is, remember the post a few months back preaching that we should 'all' learn programming? I say we should all learn more about our bodies. If and when we do, that very education will probably affect what we consume, how often we exercise, etc., ultimately improving our lives either way.
  - jlgreco 13y ago
    If you have the premonition to research it ahead of time and keep updated on it, then good for you. I suspect that the people who do that are the real minority, not HN type people. Once you are actually in a jam... trust me, you are not going to be spending your time googling for shit when you are in a bad way with kidney stones. Lobbed off a limb with your table saw? By all means, go check the internet first ...but not with kidney stones...
  - sentenza 13y ago
    I think his point was that some injuries might incapacitate you to such a degree that shopping around is not an option.
    - jlgreco 13y ago
      Exactly right. Shopping around is entirely impractical many, if not most, emergencies (and that is assuming that you are actually conscious in the first place.)

ars 13y ago

> Took me over 2 years to pay all of it off. It pretty much wrecked my personal finances Why did you pay it then? Tell the hospital you can't pay and move on with life. If you do well financially pay it then. > threats from collection agencies finally forced me to put it all on my credit card I don't understand this. Why do you even answer the phone when they call? Or open the letters they send? Just ignore them, and when you are ready to pay, then pay the hospital directly. Completely ignore the credit collection agencies. They are utterly impotent, especially when it comes to medical debt which has no effect on your credit score. I mean it - completely ignore them. I don't mean answer the phone, listen to the threats and ignore it. I mean utterly ignore them. You have caller ID. Any letters get placed unopened in a box.

mathgladiator 13y ago
> Why did you pay it then? Hospitals can be rather unhospitable. They want their money, and they don't exactly hire the nicest/knowledgeable people. I routinely get collection calls for someone else based on this issue (who either had my number prior to me getting my phone OR the person gave them my number randomly), and I wouldn't invite them over for dinner.
- ars 13y ago
  Just because they want their money doesn't mean you have to pay it. Why allow them to decide what you do?
  - mathgladiator 13y ago
    My point is that they apply pressure, and it's only natural that people will pay to get it off
    - ars 13y ago
      I got that. My point is why do you allow them to apply pressure? Simply ignore them.
13y ago

zanny 13y ago

I broke my knee this spring but didn't go to a hospital on my families request because the last time I broke a bone I reset it myself and the hospital still charged $8k. I still have blood in the joint, but I can't get it drained because no doctor will stick a needle in without an x-ray, but those are expensive. So I'm waiting till I move out and get a full time position in a bigger city to get health care to have it fixed. Probably going to have arthritis at 40....

ars 13y ago
I don't know where you live, but here there is urgent care that will do everything regarding a single injury for a flat fee of $150, including x-rays and follow ups up to one week. Look for something like that where you live. They treat uncomplicated broken bones too for the same flat fee.
lostlogin 13y ago
If there is anyway you can get in to see someone with a pre-arranged plan of payment please do. A debt that takes some years to pay off is just that. But a messed up joint may be causing permanent damage (as you well know judging by your comment). I'd be saying that you need an MRI too btw. It may be worth ringing around and seeing what you can get it for. If you ask to speak to the practice manager you might get lucky. Source: I'm a radiographer, our practice manager would check with the managing director would would almost certainly cut you a break - he is a soft touch. I'm not in the US I'm sorry to say.
sentenza 13y ago
If you know that arthritis is coming, adjust now and move to Germany (or another similar place). Waiting times for specialists might be a little longer, but you (=everybody) will be treated for treatable diseases and injuries. What you have to do, of course, is to move here legally (work visum?).
- malandrew 13y ago
  How easy is it to move to Germany as an experienced software developer and get a job there? I know Berlin has a large startup community, but is it large enough to absorb as many software developers that show up there like it is in Silicon Valley? Do you already have to know German or can you get by with learning the language after making the move?

mathgladiator 13y ago

This is why I got my arse in gear and "got a real" job. As I age, I realize that if I was horse, then I wouldn't be betting on myself.

robbiep 13y ago

Thats borderline malpractice, or perhaps more properly, very aggressive monetizing practice: a stone, or any renal cause, is always investigated initially with ultrasound. I wonder if there is a role for disputing charges on the basis of unnecessary investigations (especially in the ED setting) based on a standard of care- sort of opposite a medical malpractice suit. But I'm in Australia and don't need to worry about having 2 years worth of debt from an emergency illness..