8 ms·

Japan: Living in an Internet Cafe

104 points by Futurebot 13y ago

toyg 13y ago
Yeah, this is not news. I remember a BBC (?) reportage on the topic from 6+ years ago; at the time the angle was less about economic downturn (although the local stagflation phenomenon was mentioned) and more on social awkwardness / otaku life being exploited by cafe owners (they can kick you out pretty much at will). Sad to see things have not improved since.
bahman2000 13y ago
The other day a Lyft driver in SF told me that he's considering renting an office space in Chinatown to live in. Gym membership to shower.
kijin 13y ago
In Korea, lots of people live in Jjimjilbang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jjimjilbang http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jjimjilbang). It's like getting a gym membership, but without the gym and with much more options for washing. You also get all the benefits that an internet cafe has to offer (connectivity, snacks, etc.) but without having to curl up in a tiny cubicle.
- Udo 13y ago
  It sounds like the Jjimjilbang are more kind of mini arcologies with a heavy cultural overtone. Actually, kind of nice (not that I'd want to live there, but still).
- yeonhoyoon 13y ago
  There's also a lot of PC-bangs(equivalent to internet cafes) in Korea as well.
- bane 13y ago
  Don't forget Goshiwons as well http://wiki.galbijim.com/Goshiwon http://wiki.galbijim.com/Goshiwon
wilfra 13y ago
I stayed in these cafe's for about half of a month long trip through Japan. Partly to save money on hotels, partly for the experience and partly because their "internet cafes" are fucking awesome. I use quotes because they are nothing like what people in the West think of when they hear that term. They are designed for people to spend many, many hours in and are (generally) a really fun and comfortable place to do so. Particularly if you like being around college aged Japanese people and/or keep weird hours and/or spend lots of time online. I wouldn't want to live in one but probably would if SoMa had an equivalent - and I imagine many others would as well.
- sanukcm 13y ago
  > I wouldn't want to live in one but probably would if SoMa had an equivalent - and I imagine many others would as well. I came to the comments hoping someone else felt this way, actually. I really, really wish micro-accommodation would become a thing in American cities. I'm moving to San Francisco after I graduate next spring. I would love it if some sort of crossover between a co-working space, a Japanese airport "capsule hotel"[1] and a hacker house type environment existed. The hacker houses that exist now sound like a nice idea in theory[2] (being around a bunch of interesting, like-minded people). In practice, however, trying to get some sleep in a place like that sounds like - well, a nightmare. Great when you first arrive and are meeting people and going to interviews or whatever - not really viable over the long term for someone like me who values his sleep. In my mind, I see a place where I have: * A clean, comfortably appointed, soundproof capsule for sleeping * Access to a nice, luxury-gym-like shared bathroom * Access to a co-working space / commons area for hacking I'm not sure how realistic this is given government regulations, housing prices, the number of people interested in actually paying for such a place, etc. Sure would be cool though. [1] - http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/01/12/1225986/027006-capsule-hotel-china.jpg http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/01/12/1225986/0270... [2] - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/technology/at-hacker-hostels-living-on-the-cheap-and-dreaming-of-digital-glory.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/technology/at-hacker-hoste...
  - _delirium 13y ago
    Residential hotels with small rooms used to be sort-of an approach to this, though they weren't all the way to capsule-like. Some of them were fairly nice and had developed communities as well (usually of writers or artists). Due to a mixture of social shifts and demolitions/conversions, though, the remaining ones are generally extremely run down and verging on squalid, so it's not as much an option anymore. SF still has some SROs in the Tenderloin, but they are not particularly well-maintained or clean; the upper end of the residential-hotel category has been demolished or converted into condos or regular hotels.
perlpimp 13y ago
Kinda reminds me of neuromancer privacy suites. Far out.
aqrashik 13y ago
Given that there are people who can't afford a place to live coupled with the deflationary crisis, could someone explain to me what would be the issues, if the Japanese government simply starts giving out a minimum amount of money each month (as has been proposed for poorer countries where people actually face starvation). On the face of it, this solves two problems in one go, the poor have a basic guaranteed income; and printing and distributing money solves the deflationary spiral and pushes the currency towards inflation.
- n0mad01 13y ago
  But you do know that this inflation rate is kept intentionally high so the national debt rates are lower so the share of debt on GDP doesn't raise that fast?
- nopinsight 13y ago
  Despite many proposers, there seems to be no real-world implementation of basic income in existence. Apart from fiscal and tax issues to fund the policy, I think there is a strong moral conflict deep within human psyche that people (esp 'lazy' people) should not get something for nothing. What do you guys think? Is there any research on this?
  - _delirium 13y ago
    Alaska has a fairly pure form of a basic income, but at such a low level that it's not possible to live on: anyone resident in the state gets about $1k/yr unconditionally, paid out of oil revenues. Many European countries (mainly in northern Europe) have a more bureaucratic system, but one that amounts to a minimum income: if you completely run out of eligibility for anything else, you still get some low level of welfare benefits, and might also be eligible for housing assistance. In Germany for example, there have been some cuts to the benefit, but it is still nearly impossible to fall out of the lowest level of benefit, which is around €375/mo for a single person.
  - chipsy 13y ago
    Basic income works against the interests of institutional lobbies. Businesses relying on cheap, disposable workers will find them in much shorter supply if nobody is desperate. Unions are also threatened because the right to collective bargaining competes with the right to quit altogether under a basic income benefit. One can find numerous ways in which the social contracts we're familiar with would become obsolete. In each case the benefit counters economic coercion - a promising and scary prospect.
ttflee 13y ago
In China, the most majority of population staying overnight in a net-bar (the Chinese term for net-cafe, though they are not serving alcohol particularly or to youth illegally anyway), might be youth students who are not allowed to hang out online at nights(, or even days), or immigrant workers who do not have Internet access at their apartments. And it is occasionally used as a cheap replacement to hotel for some people. The conditions(, as much as I know,) are far poorer than the Japanese ones shown in the photos, and many (maybe most of the) net-bars are open spaces, that there were rumours that people had their World of Warcraft passwords(, or maybe the passwords for value-add cards to WoW, which I cannot remember clearly) stolen after someone peeked through CCTVs.
bane 13y ago
I'm reminded of a very brief period when I was about 10 where my family found themselves "in between homes". Having to foot long-term, but temporary living ourselves, and not knowing how long we were going to be in that situation (a year long lease wouldn't have worked), the four of us ended up at a cheap motel for a couple months. One of the enduring memories I have of such accommodations was the seedy underbelly of society I was exposed to. Drug addicts wandering the halls, mentally ill homeless spending their panhandling money for a night in a clean bed with a hot shower...it culminated when a local, very high, gang member mistook our room for another, and at 2 in the morning tried to force entry so he could "cut the balls off of Tony". It was one of the few times I've ever seen my father scared, with noplace to run and 3 other people he was responsible for, I remember him rummaging through the room looking for any kind of weapon. My grandmother ultimately convinced the gang member that he had the wrong room and there was no Tony. He went down the hall and tried to force entry into another room. The police never bothered to come. As appealing as these kinds of places might seem for the startup hacker culture, remember, cheap Japanese Internet Cafes won't necessarily translate into cheap American Internet Cafes, even with the same amenities. (In Korea, they have something called Goshiwons [1], which are small cheap rooms students rent out while studying for exams. They're usually near universities and would seem like a much better hacker dorm than sleeping on the dirty floor of an internet cafe.) 1 - http://wiki.galbijim.com/Goshiwon http://wiki.galbijim.com/Goshiwon
- fsckin 13y ago
  My family had similar "between home" experiences. I suspect these sorts of experiences are not terribly uncommon, but I'll share a couple stories. We stayed in a shady motel for 3 months. They hadn't paid the electric bill and we found out in the middle of the second night there. Front desk clerk waited for the technician to leave, then brings bolt cutters, a 2x4, and metal shims to the master panel... 3 minutes later (and a little bit of my help) power was back. Police visited daily, victimless felony arrests were quite common. In another occasion, we spent 10 months in a campground frequented by biker gangs. To my parents' dismay, I made many friends (both my age and significantly older) and learned how to fight, had my first kiss, and grew to love heavy metal, got drunk for the first time, among other things.
f4stjack 13y ago
This reminds me of Coffin Hotels in William Gibson's Neuromancer somehow...

104 points by Futurebot 13y ago

toyg 13y ago

Yeah, this is not news. I remember a BBC (?) reportage on the topic from 6+ years ago; at the time the angle was less about economic downturn (although the local stagflation phenomenon was mentioned) and more on social awkwardness / otaku life being exploited by cafe owners (they can kick you out pretty much at will). Sad to see things have not improved since.

bahman2000 13y ago

The other day a Lyft driver in SF told me that he's considering renting an office space in Chinatown to live in. Gym membership to shower.

kijin 13y ago

In Korea, lots of people live in Jjimjilbang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jjimjilbang http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jjimjilbang). It's like getting a gym membership, but without the gym and with much more options for washing. You also get all the benefits that an internet cafe has to offer (connectivity, snacks, etc.) but without having to curl up in a tiny cubicle.

Udo 13y ago
It sounds like the Jjimjilbang are more kind of mini arcologies with a heavy cultural overtone. Actually, kind of nice (not that I'd want to live there, but still).
yeonhoyoon 13y ago
There's also a lot of PC-bangs(equivalent to internet cafes) in Korea as well.
bane 13y ago
Don't forget Goshiwons as well http://wiki.galbijim.com/Goshiwon http://wiki.galbijim.com/Goshiwon

wilfra 13y ago

I stayed in these cafe's for about half of a month long trip through Japan. Partly to save money on hotels, partly for the experience and partly because their "internet cafes" are fucking awesome. I use quotes because they are nothing like what people in the West think of when they hear that term. They are designed for people to spend many, many hours in and are (generally) a really fun and comfortable place to do so. Particularly if you like being around college aged Japanese people and/or keep weird hours and/or spend lots of time online. I wouldn't want to live in one but probably would if SoMa had an equivalent - and I imagine many others would as well.

sanukcm 13y ago
> I wouldn't want to live in one but probably would if SoMa had an equivalent - and I imagine many others would as well. I came to the comments hoping someone else felt this way, actually. I really, really wish micro-accommodation would become a thing in American cities. I'm moving to San Francisco after I graduate next spring. I would love it if some sort of crossover between a co-working space, a Japanese airport "capsule hotel"[1] and a hacker house type environment existed. The hacker houses that exist now sound like a nice idea in theory[2] (being around a bunch of interesting, like-minded people). In practice, however, trying to get some sleep in a place like that sounds like - well, a nightmare. Great when you first arrive and are meeting people and going to interviews or whatever - not really viable over the long term for someone like me who values his sleep. In my mind, I see a place where I have: * A clean, comfortably appointed, soundproof capsule for sleeping * Access to a nice, luxury-gym-like shared bathroom * Access to a co-working space / commons area for hacking I'm not sure how realistic this is given government regulations, housing prices, the number of people interested in actually paying for such a place, etc. Sure would be cool though. [1] - http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/01/12/1225986/027006-capsule-hotel-china.jpg http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2011/01/12/1225986/0270... [2] - http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/technology/at-hacker-hostels-living-on-the-cheap-and-dreaming-of-digital-glory.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/06/technology/at-hacker-hoste...
- _delirium 13y ago
  Residential hotels with small rooms used to be sort-of an approach to this, though they weren't all the way to capsule-like. Some of them were fairly nice and had developed communities as well (usually of writers or artists). Due to a mixture of social shifts and demolitions/conversions, though, the remaining ones are generally extremely run down and verging on squalid, so it's not as much an option anymore. SF still has some SROs in the Tenderloin, but they are not particularly well-maintained or clean; the upper end of the residential-hotel category has been demolished or converted into condos or regular hotels.

perlpimp 13y ago

Kinda reminds me of neuromancer privacy suites. Far out.

aqrashik 13y ago

Given that there are people who can't afford a place to live coupled with the deflationary crisis, could someone explain to me what would be the issues, if the Japanese government simply starts giving out a minimum amount of money each month (as has been proposed for poorer countries where people actually face starvation). On the face of it, this solves two problems in one go, the poor have a basic guaranteed income; and printing and distributing money solves the deflationary spiral and pushes the currency towards inflation.

n0mad01 13y ago
But you do know that this inflation rate is kept intentionally high so the national debt rates are lower so the share of debt on GDP doesn't raise that fast?
nopinsight 13y ago
Despite many proposers, there seems to be no real-world implementation of basic income in existence. Apart from fiscal and tax issues to fund the policy, I think there is a strong moral conflict deep within human psyche that people (esp 'lazy' people) should not get something for nothing. What do you guys think? Is there any research on this?
- _delirium 13y ago
  Alaska has a fairly pure form of a basic income, but at such a low level that it's not possible to live on: anyone resident in the state gets about $1k/yr unconditionally, paid out of oil revenues. Many European countries (mainly in northern Europe) have a more bureaucratic system, but one that amounts to a minimum income: if you completely run out of eligibility for anything else, you still get some low level of welfare benefits, and might also be eligible for housing assistance. In Germany for example, there have been some cuts to the benefit, but it is still nearly impossible to fall out of the lowest level of benefit, which is around €375/mo for a single person.
- chipsy 13y ago
  Basic income works against the interests of institutional lobbies. Businesses relying on cheap, disposable workers will find them in much shorter supply if nobody is desperate. Unions are also threatened because the right to collective bargaining competes with the right to quit altogether under a basic income benefit. One can find numerous ways in which the social contracts we're familiar with would become obsolete. In each case the benefit counters economic coercion - a promising and scary prospect.

ttflee 13y ago

In China, the most majority of population staying overnight in a net-bar (the Chinese term for net-cafe, though they are not serving alcohol particularly or to youth illegally anyway), might be youth students who are not allowed to hang out online at nights(, or even days), or immigrant workers who do not have Internet access at their apartments. And it is occasionally used as a cheap replacement to hotel for some people. The conditions(, as much as I know,) are far poorer than the Japanese ones shown in the photos, and many (maybe most of the) net-bars are open spaces, that there were rumours that people had their World of Warcraft passwords(, or maybe the passwords for value-add cards to WoW, which I cannot remember clearly) stolen after someone peeked through CCTVs.

bane 13y ago

I'm reminded of a very brief period when I was about 10 where my family found themselves "in between homes". Having to foot long-term, but temporary living ourselves, and not knowing how long we were going to be in that situation (a year long lease wouldn't have worked), the four of us ended up at a cheap motel for a couple months. One of the enduring memories I have of such accommodations was the seedy underbelly of society I was exposed to. Drug addicts wandering the halls, mentally ill homeless spending their panhandling money for a night in a clean bed with a hot shower...it culminated when a local, very high, gang member mistook our room for another, and at 2 in the morning tried to force entry so he could "cut the balls off of Tony". It was one of the few times I've ever seen my father scared, with noplace to run and 3 other people he was responsible for, I remember him rummaging through the room looking for any kind of weapon. My grandmother ultimately convinced the gang member that he had the wrong room and there was no Tony. He went down the hall and tried to force entry into another room. The police never bothered to come. As appealing as these kinds of places might seem for the startup hacker culture, remember, cheap Japanese Internet Cafes won't necessarily translate into cheap American Internet Cafes, even with the same amenities. (In Korea, they have something called Goshiwons [1], which are small cheap rooms students rent out while studying for exams. They're usually near universities and would seem like a much better hacker dorm than sleeping on the dirty floor of an internet cafe.) 1 - http://wiki.galbijim.com/Goshiwon http://wiki.galbijim.com/Goshiwon

fsckin 13y ago
My family had similar "between home" experiences. I suspect these sorts of experiences are not terribly uncommon, but I'll share a couple stories. We stayed in a shady motel for 3 months. They hadn't paid the electric bill and we found out in the middle of the second night there. Front desk clerk waited for the technician to leave, then brings bolt cutters, a 2x4, and metal shims to the master panel... 3 minutes later (and a little bit of my help) power was back. Police visited daily, victimless felony arrests were quite common. In another occasion, we spent 10 months in a campground frequented by biker gangs. To my parents' dismay, I made many friends (both my age and significantly older) and learned how to fight, had my first kiss, and grew to love heavy metal, got drunk for the first time, among other things.

f4stjack 13y ago

This reminds me of Coffin Hotels in William Gibson's Neuromancer somehow...