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Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality just got several fascinating updates
- JulianMorrison 13y agoJust gotta say, I don't appreciate the "women in refrigerators" trope.
- ZeroGravitas 13y agoI read an earlier version of this and felt it had a few very dark moments that, even allowing for it being based off a young adult book, seemed out of place. I've never read the original and so I wondered if this was playing off something in the source material e.g. villains that couldn't really be villainous in an adult way.
- JulianMorrison 13y agoThe original is full of Dastardly-and-Muttley villains who are evil because it says "evil" on their character sheet; what motivations they have are shallow and their plots are made by Acme.
- loup-vaillant 13y agoIt's more than that. (spoiler alert) Generally, only NPCs get to be stuffed into the fridge, so we don't actually feel sorry. This one is different.
- JulianMorrison 13y agoNope, the classic fridging is: build up a female character and put her on a bit of a pedestal for feminine virtues (check, modulo the character's age, but it's unchanged canon so I can't blame EY), make her a love interest for the male lead (check and not canon), and then callously fridge her so as to motivate the male lead and give the antagonist a moral event horizon moment (check).
- loup-vaillant 13y agoYou know, I'm more worried about Harry crossing the moral even horizon right now. The antagonist already crossed it in my mind, when he crushed that blue beettle. Love interest not cannon? While in the end, Harry did end up with Ginny, I thought I recalled some hints something was possible with Hermione (from book 4, I think). I may be mistaken, though.
- JulianMorrison 13y agoJ.K. Rowling hinted at, and smashed it, pretty much hanging a lampshade off the point that "being a female sidekick of a male lead shouldn't mean automatically becoming his love interest".
- saraid216 13y agoSo does that make Lucius a prequel protagonist, given the previous war? (Trying not to spoil.)
- swombat 13y agoIf you've not read this yet, don't start... unless you have a weekend to spend on it. HP & the MoR is one of the most compulsive and intelligent reading experiences out there. Comparable to the late Iain M Banks in compulsion, imho, and half again as clever and witty.
- GFischer 13y agoActually, you've made a good pitch for Iain M. Banks, haven't read him yet, but if it's half as good... :)
- randallsquared 13y agoThe inverse of half again is two thirds. Just sayin'. :)
- clavalle 13y agoYou are in for a treat.
- n09n 13y agoSo, why should an adult choose to read this over actual literature?
- gyardley 13y agoIt's inventive and clever, extremely well-written, and the combination of a hyper-rational character in a fantasy world setting is unique. Don't let 'but is it literature?' questions deprive you of an enjoyable reading experience. That said, you probably will get more out of it if you've already read J.K. Rowling's novels, and if you worry about whether something's 'actual literature' or not, I'm guessing you haven't.
- bgilroy26 13y agoI'm not in it, but it seems like it has a neat, active community.
- unimpressive 13y agoThere are two kinds of fan fiction, fanfiction that degenerates from the source material, and fanfiction that generates from it. The former is much more common than the latter but this is without question the latter kind. Then again, I can understand if you have better things to do, I try not to read books that I'd regret spending the time on later. As a litmus test, if I could revoke having read HPMoR in exchange for the time I used, I wouldn't.
- bromagosa 13y agoI agree with you in all possible ways. Counting that your average lifespan will be around 85 years, and you've been reading real literature since you were 14, that gives you 71 years of good reading. That is, if you are lucky enough to preserve your eyesight. On average, let's say you read about 12 books per year, which gives you the sad total amount of 852 books you'll be able to read in your whole life. In my case, I've still got enough time for 684 more books. Think about this when you go into a library. A whole life worth of books fits into a couple of bookshelves... There are more authors worth reading than books I'll ever be able to read before I die. So, nope. IMO you should NOT choose to read this over actual literature.
- tehwalrus 13y agoI've not seen this before - the first three chapters have had me guffawing something dreadful! I'm going to have to ration my reading of this...
- bryanlarsen 13y agoIs it done yet? I read it when it was half the length it is now, and thoroughly enjoyed it. When it is done I will read it again, starting from the beginning.
- Luc 13y agoI don't know if Eliezer has said anything about how long he intends it to be. A new story arc just started, and it's pretty great. It seems like this could go on for a few more years.
- Ilverin 13y agoHe said that he is done through chapter 96, and implied that it might be the end (said at chapter 86 that there were "2 or 3" arcs left, and arcs tend to be about 4 chapters...).
- manku_timma 13y agoLost two nights to this one. It is definitely the best fan fiction I have read and more so. IMO JK Rowling's version pales in comparision to this, but without the inconsistencies of the original book, this HPMOR wouldn't have been possible. If you've read the original, you owe it to yourself to read this.
- Osmium 13y agoOut of interest, how many people recommending this usually read fanfiction? Because I gave it a try a good while back but got a bit frustrated with it. It seemed to read more as a parody (albeit a good one) rather than something more faithful to the characters.
- limmeau 13y agoI've never much read other fanfiction, and I don't mind the parody at all. Actually, it has kind of spoiled the plain HP for me because I just can't take their fixed gold-silver exchange rate seriously any more.
- n09n 13y agoIf any setting makes sense to keep a fixed exchange rate between gold and silver, wouldn't it be one where magic exists, including the actual philosopher's stone?
- kaybe 13y agoAs long as it's not parallel to the standard economy it's fine. In the Harry Potter setting however, there are people with access to both worlds and can easily exploit it (especially if the magic world keeps producing more gold to replace all the missing galleons)..
- paulgerhardt 13y agoI have never read any other fanfiction but I found this series a good primer on modern logic and fun idle reading. Unfortunately, it has a few cringeworthy moments and tropes[1]. It is definitely precocious at parts and not hard to draw the parallels with the whole Übermensch/Singularity thing (though to my understanding, the author has distanced himself from the organization and is currently at MIRI). My chief criticism would be that it is overly bashful of the original Harry Potter story logic but lacks a tight plot through the second half. (Admittedly something very difficult to do with serialized fiction.) Up until chapter 87 I got the feel the story went off the rails, but the last few updates have been very interesting (no spoilers.) If you enjoyed Snow Crash and do not mind fantasy, you would probably be into this. Don't take it too seriously and keep in mind it is about 1000 pages now. [1] In particular: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue / http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MartyStu
- nullspace 13y agoThe index page looks really interesting, the kind of index page that would lead me to read the book. Can someone give a gist of what this fanfic is about? (I loved the Harry Potter series and I love Nassim Talebs works if that matters)
- edent 13y agoImagine if Harry Potter was a little more inquisitive... In this universe, HP was raised by scientists. So, whenever he is introduced to some new magic, he says "Why? How? What are the limits?" For example - could one apparate to the moon?
- rictic 13y agoAlso many (but not all) characters have had their competence, intelligence, and in general their power level increased significantly (so that the story stays interesting, given that Harry's intelligence has been greatly boosted too).
- bliker 13y agoChapter 2 starts with C style #include statement.
- tome 13y agoDo you have to have read (or like) Harry Potter to appreciate this? I read several chapters (8 or so) and I actually found the story very distracting from the rationality message.
- skizm 13y agoI would say yes. So much of the world is taken directly from the actual Harry Potter books and a lot of the fun is to see the effect new Harry has on the same world.
- loup-vaillant 13y agoI would say no. There are readers who haven't read the original book, and still enjoy the fanfic. I agree that much of the fun is taken away from those, though.
- swombat 13y agoYou need some familiarity with the world, though, to get many of the jokes ("In what universe would someone like Hermione get sorted anywhere but Ravenclaw?" - "Ron's just..." "You just don't see any good reason for him to exist?" "Yeah.") and also knowing the story allows you to anticipate certain realities before Harry gets to grip with them. For example, we all know that Voldemort is Professor Quirrell, but Harry doesn't (at least not as far as I've read). Background knowledge definitely helps with the enjoyment - and imho is the only reason why you'd want to read the JK Rowling books or watch the movies! I mean, I don't dislike the books (I've read them), but they're not much more than decent entertainment (with some of them dragging on, and on, and on).
- loup-vaillant 13y agoI... Agree. I'd advise someone who is reading the fanfic to watch the first two films, then maybe read a summary of the rest.
- skizm 13y agoIf you are just starting this, make it through at least chapter 10 before deciding if you want to stop reading. That's where things really pick up.
- benhamner 13y agoIf you've not read this, strap yourself in - you're in for a ride. Eliezer, an AI researcher, has created this novel from a simple yet fascinating standpoint - what if Harry was a brilliant rationalist who engaged the magical world from a scientific standpoint? Don't dismiss this because it's a fanfic or incomplete - it introduces rationality, breaks many fantasy and geek tropes, and builds off Rowling's universe in a highly entertaining and thought-provoking page turner (I guess a modernization of this idiom would be "iPad flicker").
- chunkit 13y agoI stumbled over this a few years back and decided not to start reading it until Yudkowsky stopped adding to it or at least chunked some subset of the chapters into one or more books. When I read fiction such as this I want there to be a clearly defined beginning and end to the story. Eternal soap-operas, even if clever, aren't for me.
- loup-vaillant 13y agoIt will end soon. I'd say in a year from now, at most. There is also an e-pub version.
- jychang 13y agoOh man, how do you stand A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones then?
- ZeroGravitas 13y agoI've just realised that this is somewhat the inverse of the Science of Discworld books. Those books are split into alternative chapters of popular science, and Discworld stories about the characters reacting to our science from their point of view as characters in a fantasty novel. So you get wizards that accidentally create a "strange" universe full of "roundworlds" and then having them wondering why people don't fall off the bottom, cue chapter on gravity and planet formation. Or in the second one they meet the "God of evolution". I avoided reading them for years assuming they were going to be full of Dorling Kindersley "Science of Star Wars" type books full of pop-up AT-ATs and cut-away diagrams of lightsabers, but they're among the best pop science books I've read (though, I'm a fan of Pratchett, which undoubtedly helps)
- comex 13y agoHmm... I wouldn't agree with the people in this thread hailing it as a great work of literature. The main character is a complete Mary Sue - somewhat like Ender, but, in my opinion, considerably worse, although it's been toned down a bit in the later chapters. But I only say that to counter those people - it's indeed a delightful and addictive read. The only problem is that it updates quite infrequently and is nowhere near done - I had been suspecting that it'd been abandoned. Reading 90 or so chapters (at high speed, due to the addictiveness) only to come to a screeching halt and have to wait months for a few more chapters is not that fun!
- loup-vaillant 13y agoWhile Harry is ridiculously overpowered, his enemies are correspondingly scary. Eliezer won't abandon this fic. If I recall correctly, there is one last arc left after the current one one. Though I would't count on it before next year.
- wnewman 13y agoNot just his enemies. For me, a number of the most memorable flourishes of the book are how formidable it makes some of the other people, at least in some respects --- the defense professor especially, but at various points in the story he turns the formidability firehose on people like Hermione and Aurors and the prankster brothers. It's a bit of a dramatic problem, actually, because it leaves people who haven't been sprayed looking so ineffectual that it's hard to understand why they take up so much dramatic space. E.g., I think the story would work better if Draco got more formidability to justify his apparent importance. At least Draco could have gotten a chance to win big by applying some of the applied organization theory tips from his father, perhaps by being the one to deploy effective staff/delegation/incentive techniques in the war games. Or the unimpressive frontline support security provided by his father could be backed by a second-line security specialist chosen by his father who shows up on call and gets some of the formidability and formidabilitytrainer love that the story gives to Aurors and defense professors.
- loup-vaillant 13y ago
- tzs 13y agoIf you like HPMOR as entertainment (rather than just for educational value), then another fanfic you might enjoy is "A Study in Magic" [1]. It's a crossover between HP and the BBC's "Sherlock", where the Dursleys get killed before the start of the story in one of Moriarty's schemes against Holmes. Holmes and Watson end up adopting Harry and raising him. Harry learns a lot about observation and deduction from Holmes, and makes good use of this dealing with the problems he confronts at Hogwarts. Holmes is not content to act like a normal Muggle parent and ignore the wizarding world once his child leaves for Hogwarts. He takes an active (and not always welcomed) interest in wizard affairs. [1] http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7578572/1/A-Study-in-Magic http://www.fanfiction.net/s/7578572/1/A-Study-in-Magic