7 ms·

Edward Snowden submits asylum applications

94 points by teawithcarl 13y ago

teawithcarl 13y ago
A large contingent of mainstream European nations included. Europe stepping forward to defend Snowden and stand against surveillance may tilt the balance. Europe is quite angry about being the "OK to do 100% surveillance on" foreigners.
- sneak 13y ago
  Well, except the UK and Germany, who both secretly participated (and presumably benefitted in return). It's hard to find bigger influencers of the EU than those two. :/ http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/nsa-spies-on-500-million-german-data-connections-a-908648.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/nsa-spies-on-500... Though, if it ends up being France, I will run out and buy a TV just to watch the stupidity that will come out of TV news afterward. :D
  - teawithcarl 13y ago
    Germany's in the list, and a solid candidate due to their past WWII disdain for surveillance, as well as Germany's privacy concerns about the Internet.
    - spullara 13y ago
      You must have missed the law in Germany that went into effect.
      - teawithcarl 13y ago
        Perhaps so.
  - hkmurakami 13y ago
    >Though, if it ends up being France, I will run out and buy a TV just to watch the stupidity that will come out of TV news afterward. :D Such an event would mark one of the few times in recent memory of the benefit of having family members who watch TV (I, much like you, do not any more). It will be theater live none other.
  - ekianjo 13y ago
    > Though, if it ends up being France, I will run out and buy a TV just to watch the stupidity that will come out of TV news afterward. :D Time for the "Freedom Fries" to come back ? :)
- laureny 13y ago
  "Europe" can be as angry as it wants, at the end of the day, it's a singly country that will have to give asylum to Snowden, and I can't imagine a single country in all of Europe (including Russia) that would challenge the US in that way. The only countries I can see willing to take that risk would be the likes of Iran, Afghanistan or other similar enemies of the US. Not going to happen.
  - danmaz74 13y ago
    This is one of the big reasons why I really want the EU to become a federation: Each country alone, even Germany, is too little on the World stage. Divide et impera.
- deleted 13y ago
  [deleted]
kylelibra 13y ago
Austria Bolivia Brazil China Cuba Finland France Germany India Italy Ireland Netherlands Nicaragua Norway Poland Russia Spain Switzerland Venezuela
- Spooky23 13y ago
  Ireland? The Irish government cooperates with US government better than many US States. Sounds like Mr. Snowden's run is winding down.
  - davorak 13y ago
    It seems unlikely that if they offered asylum they would then reject it after he arrived in the country. An application can not hurt and makes it likely for the country to make a public statement.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    We do have a constitutional position of neutrality, which may underpin his appeal. But since he's not fleeing an armed conflict I don't see this availing him particularly.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  I wonder where Switzerland stands in all that.
- belorn 13y ago
  Noticed that Sweden is not among them. I guess once bitten, twice shy.
- ajuc 13y ago
  Polish government already said the application doesn't fullfil formal requirements. Cowards. I am ashamed of them.
  - zokier 13y ago
    Seems like most of Europe will require asylum applications to be left in person inside the country. That will make Snowdens life bit more difficult, especially as his mobility seems bit limited atm.
shmerl 13y ago
Why is Iceland not in the list? Weren't they one of the first who offered an asylum?
- mpyne 13y ago
  Just keep reading, you'll find it.
- cynix 13y ago
  "The requests join or update others previously made including to the Republic of Ecuador and the Republic of Iceland."
tszyn 13y ago
While it would make me proud if my country granted asylum to Snowden, I'm quite sure that no European politician will dare provoke the wrath of the American Empire -- there would be no clear benefits but obvious disadvantages.
- mbillie1 13y ago
  IANAL and I know nothing about the logistics/legality of this, but is it possible to appeal to the EU at large rather than specific nations? Or for a nation receiving such an application to appeal to the EU for validation of its acceptance of that application? It seems like "Germany, with the support of the EU" would be more weighty than "Germany", just as an example.
  - haldujai 13y ago
    The EU has been trying to do this for over a decade [1] but it hasn't been fully implemented yet. That said they have implemented a directive [1] on how to handle asylum requests which is a great improvement on the previous system of the lowest standards of any relevant country are applied to all of the requests. [1]http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/asylum/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/asy... I think the issue preventing a common system is state sovereignty. States, like us, really dislike giving up their rights and liberties, such as the right to deny access to a non-citizen. A common system would force states to accept asylum seekers despite their desires and interests, which could damage foreign relations. Not that this should be a factor in deciding whether to grant asylum.
    - mbillie1 13y ago
      > States, like us, really dislike giving up their rights and liberties, such as the right to deny access to a non-citizen. A common system would force states to accept asylum seekers despite their desires and interests, which could damage foreign relations. And it's tricky, when you might have asylum requests between EU nations. I understand the complexities. It just seems that, even if merely a vocalization (like the US Senate "resolutions"), it could carry some weight to have numerous EU countries vocalize their support for something like this. Although perhaps I am simply naive.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
llamataboot 13y ago
Some of these seem like shots in the dark, but I can't imagine both Cuba and Venezuela not offering Snowden asylum if he can get there. They really have nothing to lose in the pissing-the-US off department. an EU country offering asylum would indeed be huge, I just can't see it happening.
staunch 13y ago
Smart move including all these countries. The media in each country will report on it, and the citizens will be forced to think about it. A groundswell may form in one of them.
kailuowang 13y ago
The question here is if that government is willing to encourage such leak against secret agencies of a government. If a government granted Snowden such asylum, what kind of signal it sends to its own employees? I am a supporter of Snowden, but I doubt there is a "free" government that will take the same side as Snowden against the U.S. government. Snowden might have a better chance with a government that deem U.S. government as an enemy such as Cuba. But there might be a dilemma that the U.S. government can portrait him as one that took the enemy's side.
comrade1 13y ago
Surprised Switzerland is on the list. The Swiss really really want to talk to him about his time in Geneva as a CIA spy that took part in a blackmail operation on a Swiss banker. http://www.thelocal.ch/20130611/bern-seeks-us-response-over-alleged-spying http://www.thelocal.ch/20130611/bern-seeks-us-response-over-... But Switzerland does give asylum to the stateless. But I think now, as of a few weeks ago, he would actually have to get to Switzerland to apply. You can no longer apply for asylum from outside of Switzerland as it was being abused. The Swiss take more refugees than most other European countries.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]
hkmurakami 13y ago
Hmm. Ecuador afaik has been wavering a bit under US diplomatic pressure in the past week as far as I could tell, but I wonder if these now applications will impel them to act wrt Snowden. I imagine the courtry derives some benefit from being the mindshare owner as safehaven for the recent whisteblowers.
nateabele 13y ago
Man, so many republics, but all we ever hear is 'democracy, democracy, democracy'. Gee, I wonder why...
llomlup 13y ago
I would have asked Serbia as well. Although they're a small country, they could resist US because of Snowden. They have been bombarded by NATO and later, they've been forced to accept a secession of Kosovo.
wielebny 13y ago
Scanned Snowden application received by polish government: http://www.tvn24.pl/msz-polska-nie-ma-interesu-w-udzieleniu-azylu-snowdenowi,336820,s.html http://www.tvn24.pl/msz-polska-nie-ma-interesu-w-udzieleniu-...
- tcoppi 13y ago
  Interesting, he says he is a US citizen in that letter, but didn't he say he was "stateless" recently?

94 points by teawithcarl 13y ago

A large contingent of mainstream European nations included. Europe stepping forward to defend Snowden and stand against surveillance may tilt the balance. Europe is quite angry about being the "OK to do 100% surveillance on" foreigners.

sneak 13y ago
Well, except the UK and Germany, who both secretly participated (and presumably benefitted in return). It's hard to find bigger influencers of the EU than those two. :/ http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/nsa-spies-on-500-million-german-data-connections-a-908648.html http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/nsa-spies-on-500... Though, if it ends up being France, I will run out and buy a TV just to watch the stupidity that will come out of TV news afterward. :D
- teawithcarl 13y ago
  Germany's in the list, and a solid candidate due to their past WWII disdain for surveillance, as well as Germany's privacy concerns about the Internet.
  - spullara 13y ago
    You must have missed the law in Germany that went into effect.
    - teawithcarl 13y ago
      Perhaps so.
- hkmurakami 13y ago
  >Though, if it ends up being France, I will run out and buy a TV just to watch the stupidity that will come out of TV news afterward. :D Such an event would mark one of the few times in recent memory of the benefit of having family members who watch TV (I, much like you, do not any more). It will be theater live none other.
- ekianjo 13y ago
  > Though, if it ends up being France, I will run out and buy a TV just to watch the stupidity that will come out of TV news afterward. :D Time for the "Freedom Fries" to come back ? :)
laureny 13y ago
"Europe" can be as angry as it wants, at the end of the day, it's a singly country that will have to give asylum to Snowden, and I can't imagine a single country in all of Europe (including Russia) that would challenge the US in that way. The only countries I can see willing to take that risk would be the likes of Iran, Afghanistan or other similar enemies of the US. Not going to happen.
- danmaz74 13y ago
  This is one of the big reasons why I really want the EU to become a federation: Each country alone, even Germany, is too little on the World stage. Divide et impera.
deleted 13y ago
[deleted]

kylelibra 13y ago

Austria Bolivia Brazil China Cuba Finland France Germany India Italy Ireland Netherlands Nicaragua Norway Poland Russia Spain Switzerland Venezuela

Spooky23 13y ago
Ireland? The Irish government cooperates with US government better than many US States. Sounds like Mr. Snowden's run is winding down.
- davorak 13y ago
  It seems unlikely that if they offered asylum they would then reject it after he arrived in the country. An application can not hurt and makes it likely for the country to make a public statement.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  We do have a constitutional position of neutrality, which may underpin his appeal. But since he's not fleeing an armed conflict I don't see this availing him particularly.
ekianjo 13y ago
I wonder where Switzerland stands in all that.
belorn 13y ago
Noticed that Sweden is not among them. I guess once bitten, twice shy.
ajuc 13y ago
Polish government already said the application doesn't fullfil formal requirements. Cowards. I am ashamed of them.
- zokier 13y ago
  Seems like most of Europe will require asylum applications to be left in person inside the country. That will make Snowdens life bit more difficult, especially as his mobility seems bit limited atm.

shmerl 13y ago

Why is Iceland not in the list? Weren't they one of the first who offered an asylum?

mpyne 13y ago
Just keep reading, you'll find it.
cynix 13y ago
"The requests join or update others previously made including to the Republic of Ecuador and the Republic of Iceland."

tszyn 13y ago

While it would make me proud if my country granted asylum to Snowden, I'm quite sure that no European politician will dare provoke the wrath of the American Empire -- there would be no clear benefits but obvious disadvantages.

mbillie1 13y ago
IANAL and I know nothing about the logistics/legality of this, but is it possible to appeal to the EU at large rather than specific nations? Or for a nation receiving such an application to appeal to the EU for validation of its acceptance of that application? It seems like "Germany, with the support of the EU" would be more weighty than "Germany", just as an example.
- haldujai 13y ago
  The EU has been trying to do this for over a decade [1] but it hasn't been fully implemented yet. That said they have implemented a directive [1] on how to handle asylum requests which is a great improvement on the previous system of the lowest standards of any relevant country are applied to all of the requests. [1]http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/asylum/index_en.htm http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/asy... I think the issue preventing a common system is state sovereignty. States, like us, really dislike giving up their rights and liberties, such as the right to deny access to a non-citizen. A common system would force states to accept asylum seekers despite their desires and interests, which could damage foreign relations. Not that this should be a factor in deciding whether to grant asylum.
  - mbillie1 13y ago
    > States, like us, really dislike giving up their rights and liberties, such as the right to deny access to a non-citizen. A common system would force states to accept asylum seekers despite their desires and interests, which could damage foreign relations. And it's tricky, when you might have asylum requests between EU nations. I understand the complexities. It just seems that, even if merely a vocalization (like the US Senate "resolutions"), it could carry some weight to have numerous EU countries vocalize their support for something like this. Although perhaps I am simply naive.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

llamataboot 13y ago

Some of these seem like shots in the dark, but I can't imagine both Cuba and Venezuela not offering Snowden asylum if he can get there. They really have nothing to lose in the pissing-the-US off department. an EU country offering asylum would indeed be huge, I just can't see it happening.

staunch 13y ago

Smart move including all these countries. The media in each country will report on it, and the citizens will be forced to think about it. A groundswell may form in one of them.

kailuowang 13y ago

The question here is if that government is willing to encourage such leak against secret agencies of a government. If a government granted Snowden such asylum, what kind of signal it sends to its own employees? I am a supporter of Snowden, but I doubt there is a "free" government that will take the same side as Snowden against the U.S. government. Snowden might have a better chance with a government that deem U.S. government as an enemy such as Cuba. But there might be a dilemma that the U.S. government can portrait him as one that took the enemy's side.

comrade1 13y ago

Surprised Switzerland is on the list. The Swiss really really want to talk to him about his time in Geneva as a CIA spy that took part in a blackmail operation on a Swiss banker. http://www.thelocal.ch/20130611/bern-seeks-us-response-over-alleged-spying http://www.thelocal.ch/20130611/bern-seeks-us-response-over-... But Switzerland does give asylum to the stateless. But I think now, as of a few weeks ago, he would actually have to get to Switzerland to apply. You can no longer apply for asylum from outside of Switzerland as it was being abused. The Swiss take more refugees than most other European countries.

deleted 13y ago

[deleted]

hkmurakami 13y ago

Hmm. Ecuador afaik has been wavering a bit under US diplomatic pressure in the past week as far as I could tell, but I wonder if these now applications will impel them to act wrt Snowden. I imagine the courtry derives some benefit from being the mindshare owner as safehaven for the recent whisteblowers.

nateabele 13y ago

Man, so many republics, but all we ever hear is 'democracy, democracy, democracy'. Gee, I wonder why...

llomlup 13y ago

I would have asked Serbia as well. Although they're a small country, they could resist US because of Snowden. They have been bombarded by NATO and later, they've been forced to accept a secession of Kosovo.

wielebny 13y ago

Scanned Snowden application received by polish government: http://www.tvn24.pl/msz-polska-nie-ma-interesu-w-udzieleniu-azylu-snowdenowi,336820,s.html http://www.tvn24.pl/msz-polska-nie-ma-interesu-w-udzieleniu-...

tcoppi 13y ago
Interesting, he says he is a US citizen in that letter, but didn't he say he was "stateless" recently?