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But even Hacker News would be provide a better user experience if it made more use of Javascript to publish comments, etc. instead of all the jumping around wit

by kondro 13y ago

But even Hacker News would be provide a better user experience if it made more use of Javascript to publish comments, etc. instead of all the jumping around with the current UI. Something only possible with JS.

aethr 13y ago
This is my preferred use of js, providing additional functionality and usability improvements on top of things that already work perfectly well with js disabled. Users with js still get the "fuller" experience, but users who choose to disable js still have full access to the site.
- kondro 13y ago
  But developers shouldn't have to implement extra functionality for the < 1% [citation needed] of people who browse without JS .
  - socillion 13y ago
    If it doesn't work without JS, is it going to work in a screen reader? Should developers have to implement extra functionality for the < 1% of people who are blind? Nobody is forcing developers to give a damn about accessibility, but it's a bit sad that so many have thrown graceful degradation out the window.
    - btgeekboy 13y ago
      The way I understand it (and I don't claim to be an expert): yes, it will work. Modern screen readers let the browser handle the JS and related parts, and it reads the displayed text.
    - justincormack 13y ago
      Screen readers can generally cope with much use if JavaScript now.
      - dthunt 13y ago
        key word 'much'. That's like saying something 'mostly' works and therefor 'it's not a problem'.
        justincormack 13y ago
        No, I meant it can be made to work, you of course need to test it.
  - aethr 13y ago
    That depends entirely on your site and audience. Although some counter by saying that you shouldn't need to provide wheelchair ramps for the < 1% of people who are unable to use stairs. Sometimes it's not just about ROI.
    - kondro 13y ago
      JS doesn't make the web less accessible. You can choose to make your web apps using JS just as accessible as plain-old HTML, sometimes more so.
  - Isofarro 13y ago
    But you have to implement this "extra functionality" already. Or, how are you dealing with situations where your JavaScript fails to reach your user's browser? How are you dealing with situations where the JavaScript arrives in the browser but doesn't execute? This "extra functionality" is the same "extra functionality" as having a safety cage designed and implemented in a car. Sure, it's just extra functionality that most people will never ever use. Hopefully. Touch wood.
darkarmani 13y ago
I think that would be easy to fix using only HTML, if the refresh used an anchor tag to your comment.
- kondro 13y ago
  But would always require a complete page reload. Not that most web apps wouldn't implement it that way to begin with anyway, but this would be the only choice with a HTML-only site.
  - Dylan16807 13y ago
    But go back to HN for a moment, there's not really a good way to insert new threaded comments in realtime, you pretty much need a refresh. So the no-js method is about perfect.
  - kps 13y ago
    >But would always require a complete page reload. So? A complete HN page is smaller than JQuery.

by kondro 13y ago

aethr 13y ago

This is my preferred use of js, providing additional functionality and usability improvements on top of things that already work perfectly well with js disabled. Users with js still get the "fuller" experience, but users who choose to disable js still have full access to the site.

kondro 13y ago
But developers shouldn't have to implement extra functionality for the < 1% [citation needed] of people who browse without JS .
- socillion 13y ago
  If it doesn't work without JS, is it going to work in a screen reader? Should developers have to implement extra functionality for the < 1% of people who are blind? Nobody is forcing developers to give a damn about accessibility, but it's a bit sad that so many have thrown graceful degradation out the window.
  - btgeekboy 13y ago
    The way I understand it (and I don't claim to be an expert): yes, it will work. Modern screen readers let the browser handle the JS and related parts, and it reads the displayed text.
  - justincormack 13y ago
    Screen readers can generally cope with much use if JavaScript now.
    - dthunt 13y ago
      key word 'much'. That's like saying something 'mostly' works and therefor 'it's not a problem'.
      - justincormack 13y ago
        No, I meant it can be made to work, you of course need to test it.
- aethr 13y ago
  That depends entirely on your site and audience. Although some counter by saying that you shouldn't need to provide wheelchair ramps for the < 1% of people who are unable to use stairs. Sometimes it's not just about ROI.
  - kondro 13y ago
    JS doesn't make the web less accessible. You can choose to make your web apps using JS just as accessible as plain-old HTML, sometimes more so.
- Isofarro 13y ago
  But you have to implement this "extra functionality" already. Or, how are you dealing with situations where your JavaScript fails to reach your user's browser? How are you dealing with situations where the JavaScript arrives in the browser but doesn't execute? This "extra functionality" is the same "extra functionality" as having a safety cage designed and implemented in a car. Sure, it's just extra functionality that most people will never ever use. Hopefully. Touch wood.

darkarmani 13y ago

I think that would be easy to fix using only HTML, if the refresh used an anchor tag to your comment.

kondro 13y ago
But would always require a complete page reload. Not that most web apps wouldn't implement it that way to begin with anyway, but this would be the only choice with a HTML-only site.
- Dylan16807 13y ago
  But go back to HN for a moment, there's not really a good way to insert new threaded comments in realtime, you pretty much need a refresh. So the no-js method is about perfect.
- kps 13y ago
  >But would always require a complete page reload. So? A complete HN page is smaller than JQuery.