3 ms·

So it all went to hell once Wikileaks got involved.

by gojomo 13y ago

ars 13y ago
Yah. I was very surprised when I heard he listened to them. He had a great plan, and should have stuck with it. Wikileaks is using him for their own goals, which appear to be to snub the united states. (Their stated goals, and their actual goals do not match.) And they have a rather poor track record at actually getting asylum. They are too public with the process. Instead of just doing it they like to talk about first, to make sure everyone knows just how much they are snubbing the US in the process.
- tedks 13y ago
  Wikileaks is using him for their own goals, which appear to be to snub the united states. Lately, the US has been very obviously attacking Wikileaks, but they've been around since long before the Collateral Murder videos, and they've pissed off China, Scientology, the Virgin Islands, and plenty others. The focus on the US was just the result of getting a vast amount of access in the form of Manning.
- cpeterso 13y ago
  > He had a great plan, and should have stuck with it. Wasn't Hong Kong prepared to give him up to the US?
  - adventured 13y ago
    By most accounts, that process could have taken years. Hong Kong has an extraordinarily slow legal process, and there was an endless line of lawyers willing to take up his defense case. At this point, if he's not very very lucky, he'll be back in the US against his own will in a matter of weeks or months.
  - rdl 13y ago
    I'd rather fight in HK for months/years, then be very publicly turned over to USG (so they can't just disappear to Gitmo), ideally close to election season, for a public trial, than be in the direct custody and control of Russia or China (or Iran or North Korea or a few other countries...). He should not have taken Wikileaks advice and support; sticking to Hong Kong lawyers, EFF, and maybe other whistleblowers like Binney would have been a lot better for everyone (including US national security, which is helped by ending illegal spying and by not compromising legitimate (to the US) spying on foreign governments).
    - refurb 13y ago
      Wow! Of all the "suggestions" on what Snowden should do. This is the most coherent and reasonable on so far. Throwing his lot in with China or Russia is a very risky move. The only thing they both have in common is a desire to embarrass the US. If Snowden becomes a liability for either of those countries, they will throw him under the bus in a heartbeat. The best Snowden can hope for is to drag out the process long enough so attention dwindles (and possibly some positive changes occur). In five years one can hope that the US gov't is of the opinion that a strong prosecution is not in their best interest.
- fatjokes 13y ago
  > Wikileaks is using him for their own goals Sadly, it appears Wikileak's own goal is to feed the ego of Assange. They do valuable work, they just need a leader who doesn't want to be a cult leader.
  - b6 13y ago
    Again with this junk. He hardly mentions himself. He's relentless on the most crucial issues of humanity. Nobody's done more for the world lately, but you use your psychic powers to find some supposed flaw. It's like hating the ambulance that came to save your life because it needs to be washed (and it doesn't even really need to be washed). Bikeshed on some other issue! Anything!
    - fatjokes 13y ago
      Looks like somebody wants to drink the kool-aid. Boy, HN has some seriously angry, condescending a-holes. Also, bikeshedding? Assange is causing problems that is not helping the Wikileaks cause. He's becoming an ineffective leader: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/28/edward-snowden-ecuador-julian-assange http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/28/edward-snowden-e...
      - b6 13y ago
        You said that Wikileaks was all about stroking Assange's ego. I called you on that. I'm sorry if I came off badly, but I keep seeing this idea and I never see it substantiated with anything. He's an attention whore because he tirelessly works his causes? Is Chomsky? I'm not so much angry at you as exasperated at what I see as some kind of reflexive nitpicking of a guy who's doing a huge amount of good.
- b6 13y ago
  > He had a great plan, and should have stuck with it. Yes, everything is simple and easy from where you sit. > Wikileaks is using him for their own goals, which appear to be to snub the united states. Snowden asked WL for help, and they came to his aid. It may not work out, since their enemy is the most powerful government on earth. I hope you can forgive them if it doesn't go perfectly. This is the most credible effort toward confronting the most crucial issues that has ever happened in my life. The ship is leaving, and you're making noise about how you don't like its paint job. I feel sorry for you that you have such a bad case of bikeshedding disease.

So it all went to hell once Wikileaks got involved.

by gojomo 13y ago

So it all went to hell once Wikileaks got involved.

ars 13y ago

Yah. I was very surprised when I heard he listened to them. He had a great plan, and should have stuck with it. Wikileaks is using him for their own goals, which appear to be to snub the united states. (Their stated goals, and their actual goals do not match.) And they have a rather poor track record at actually getting asylum. They are too public with the process. Instead of just doing it they like to talk about first, to make sure everyone knows just how much they are snubbing the US in the process.

tedks 13y ago
Wikileaks is using him for their own goals, which appear to be to snub the united states. Lately, the US has been very obviously attacking Wikileaks, but they've been around since long before the Collateral Murder videos, and they've pissed off China, Scientology, the Virgin Islands, and plenty others. The focus on the US was just the result of getting a vast amount of access in the form of Manning.
cpeterso 13y ago
> He had a great plan, and should have stuck with it. Wasn't Hong Kong prepared to give him up to the US?
- adventured 13y ago
  By most accounts, that process could have taken years. Hong Kong has an extraordinarily slow legal process, and there was an endless line of lawyers willing to take up his defense case. At this point, if he's not very very lucky, he'll be back in the US against his own will in a matter of weeks or months.
- rdl 13y ago
  I'd rather fight in HK for months/years, then be very publicly turned over to USG (so they can't just disappear to Gitmo), ideally close to election season, for a public trial, than be in the direct custody and control of Russia or China (or Iran or North Korea or a few other countries...). He should not have taken Wikileaks advice and support; sticking to Hong Kong lawyers, EFF, and maybe other whistleblowers like Binney would have been a lot better for everyone (including US national security, which is helped by ending illegal spying and by not compromising legitimate (to the US) spying on foreign governments).
  - refurb 13y ago
    Wow! Of all the "suggestions" on what Snowden should do. This is the most coherent and reasonable on so far. Throwing his lot in with China or Russia is a very risky move. The only thing they both have in common is a desire to embarrass the US. If Snowden becomes a liability for either of those countries, they will throw him under the bus in a heartbeat. The best Snowden can hope for is to drag out the process long enough so attention dwindles (and possibly some positive changes occur). In five years one can hope that the US gov't is of the opinion that a strong prosecution is not in their best interest.
fatjokes 13y ago
> Wikileaks is using him for their own goals Sadly, it appears Wikileak's own goal is to feed the ego of Assange. They do valuable work, they just need a leader who doesn't want to be a cult leader.
- b6 13y ago
  Again with this junk. He hardly mentions himself. He's relentless on the most crucial issues of humanity. Nobody's done more for the world lately, but you use your psychic powers to find some supposed flaw. It's like hating the ambulance that came to save your life because it needs to be washed (and it doesn't even really need to be washed). Bikeshed on some other issue! Anything!
  - fatjokes 13y ago
    Looks like somebody wants to drink the kool-aid. Boy, HN has some seriously angry, condescending a-holes. Also, bikeshedding? Assange is causing problems that is not helping the Wikileaks cause. He's becoming an ineffective leader: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/28/edward-snowden-ecuador-julian-assange http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/28/edward-snowden-e...
    - b6 13y ago
      You said that Wikileaks was all about stroking Assange's ego. I called you on that. I'm sorry if I came off badly, but I keep seeing this idea and I never see it substantiated with anything. He's an attention whore because he tirelessly works his causes? Is Chomsky? I'm not so much angry at you as exasperated at what I see as some kind of reflexive nitpicking of a guy who's doing a huge amount of good.
b6 13y ago
> He had a great plan, and should have stuck with it. Yes, everything is simple and easy from where you sit. > Wikileaks is using him for their own goals, which appear to be to snub the united states. Snowden asked WL for help, and they came to his aid. It may not work out, since their enemy is the most powerful government on earth. I hope you can forgive them if it doesn't go perfectly. This is the most credible effort toward confronting the most crucial issues that has ever happened in my life. The ship is leaving, and you're making noise about how you don't like its paint job. I feel sorry for you that you have such a bad case of bikeshedding disease.