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Well yes. But we Europeans see ourselves as US allies and partners ... mostly because US tells us we are. Wanting to be informed what is going on is understanda
by venomsnake 13y ago
Well yes. But we Europeans see ourselves as US allies and partners ... mostly because US tells us we are. Wanting to be informed what is going on is understandable.
So intrusion in government networks and wide interception of the civilian population communication of a countries that are stable, democracies and partners in NATO and allies in the wars US is waging comes as a somewhat hostile stuff.
US is doing too much spying right now. Too wide, too long a period, too broad. Europe has deep scars and trust issues.
In a sense US should abandon SIGINT and stick to the good old fashioned HUMINT with its allies at least. If you want documents and info there are gentler ways to obtain them.
- dfc 13y agoDo you think "in a sense" that the EU nations should abandon SIGINT and stick to good old fashioned HUMINT? Or maybe a middle of the road position and just have the Five Eyes abstain from SIGINT?
- venomsnake 13y agoWell I have yet to see something about direct spying and intrusion in US networks by EU government agencies. Also yeah - the whole dragnets should be scaled back for various reasons. If you intercept and retain everything you have insane SNR that can prove counterproductive in the long run. Very intensive spying on allies is impolite at best.
- dfc 13y agoThe thing about intelligence work is that your failures are public and successes are secret. I think your last sentence is hopelessly naive.
- nitrogen 13y agoSo make the successes public in full detail.
- dfc 13y agoI cant tell if this is a legitimate response or if you are being obtuse.
- nitrogen 13y agoI'm being serious. HN is nothing if not ultra-rational (or so we claim). Evidence trumps all. Prove surveillance works, that it's necessary, works better than any conceivable alternative, and that the damage to society is worth it, and your empirical proof will be accepted.
- adventured 13y ago"France is top industrial espionage offender [against Germany]" http://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espionage-economy-germany-russia-china-business http://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espion... And yet allies do it constantly. I'm skeptical that polite applies in this context when you consider history.
- uvdiv 13y agoHere's the cable for that: https://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/wikileaksdokumenter/article3972436.ece https://www.aftenposten.no/spesial/wikileaksdokumenter/artic...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- barry-cotter 13y agoThe US has no partners. It has two rivals, Russia and China. It does have allies but they are not remotely equals. The legal fiction may be of equality in international law but the reality is more like the old Chinese view of the world where there was China, Chinese tributary states and rebels.