4 ms·

NSA taping all your phone calls and logging your emails, and now you get 13 years for chalk writing. But you still believe in the land of the free and the home

NSA taping all your phone calls and logging your emails, and now you get 13 years for chalk writing. But you still believe in the land of the free and the home of the brave You're Free. Really Free. As long as you're not Brave enough to criticize the rich in chalk. Good night, and good luck.

tokenadult 13y ago
Try the same experiment in Russia (the place of publication of this story) and let us know how the experiment goes. AFTER EDIT: I'm fully serious in the suggestion "try the same experiment in Russia." Let's be empirical here. Once we know how a lot of actual cases turn out, we have something to talk about that is more informative than one anecdote. P.S. The pattern of upvotes and downvotes on this comment is especially interesting in light of the replies it has received.
- tptacek 13y ago
  Fun fact about Russia: while we were striking down DOMA today, Saint Petersburg was working to criminalize same-sex couples.
  - rmc 13y ago
    Not only that, they are criminalizing the "promotion of homosexuality", a "don't say gay" law. Gay pride marches are also being banned due to "protect the children".
- ihsw 13y ago
  Irrelevant.
- grecy 13y ago
  I'm sick of hearing the United States compared to the typical 2nd and 3rd world countries over and over, which is meaningless. You're doing the same thing as comparing your sports team to the one on the bottom of the ladder - of course your team looks fine compared to the one at the bottom. Why not look up and notice all the teams always above you? Aim higher, aim for improvement.
  - anigbrowl 13y ago
    Why do you think Russia Today is reporting this story, while leaving out essential information about how the legal system actually functions? It's designed to make the US court system look bad. If they explained the procedural basis of the judge's decision it would be a non-story.
- strlen 13y ago
  As a former USSR immigrant, I'll just leave this Soviet joke out there: An American tells a Russian that there's free speech in American; that anyone is free to just go infront of a government building and yell "American president is an idiot." The Russian responds that this is no big deal -- in Russia anyone is also free to go in front of a government building and yell "American president is an idiot." For the record, I strongly support the bill of rights (I also hold the fanatical and extremist belief that there's another integer between the integers 1 and 3...) and am very much opposed to the surveillance state, hounding of whistle blowers, cruel treatment of prisoners, war on drugs, and so forth. I also understand reasons for Snowden to travel to/through those states (he does not want to go to prison and no one else is willing to have him). However, I'll say this unequivocally: from a world-wide perspective, United States is far ahead of rest of the world (including many other liberal democracies) in terms of value put on civil liberties. Most countries are far more communitarian -- there are simply far more exceptions to free speech, privacy, etc... rights and (unlike in the US) many of those exceptions aren't even rooted in protection from a "clear and present danger." (Related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes )
  - Daishiman 13y ago
    > However, I'll say this unequivocally: from a world-wide perspective, United State is far ahead of rest of the world (including many other liberal democracies) in terms of value put on civil liberties. I think you are categorically misinformed on this matter. I urge to look into the human rights legislations that have been enacted in many Latin American countries to see real progress in that area (and I say this as a person who opposes a large number of measures such governments have been taking).
  - rmc 13y ago
    there are simply far more exceptions to free speech, privacy, etc Actually, in many ways I'd say that the EU has better privacy rights than the US. The Data Protection Directive covers a lot more privacy stuff than is covered by US law. You're right about "free speech", more things are legal to say in the USA than in EU countries, however that's (I think) at the expense of other human rights. If you give more free speech rights, you take away other rights (e.g. the free speech rights of the Westboro Baptist church to picket funerals takes away the right to privacy and happiness for the family who are burying a family member. The free speech rights to say "$PERSON has erectile disfunction" takes away the right to privacy of $PERSON, etc.). It all depends on how much you value some things. (How much do you value privacy, how much do you value free speech, how much do you value right to life of marginalized groups etc) (I'm using EU because I'm more familiar with it)

tokenadult 13y ago

Try the same experiment in Russia (the place of publication of this story) and let us know how the experiment goes. AFTER EDIT: I'm fully serious in the suggestion "try the same experiment in Russia." Let's be empirical here. Once we know how a lot of actual cases turn out, we have something to talk about that is more informative than one anecdote. P.S. The pattern of upvotes and downvotes on this comment is especially interesting in light of the replies it has received.

tptacek 13y ago
Fun fact about Russia: while we were striking down DOMA today, Saint Petersburg was working to criminalize same-sex couples.
- rmc 13y ago
  Not only that, they are criminalizing the "promotion of homosexuality", a "don't say gay" law. Gay pride marches are also being banned due to "protect the children".
ihsw 13y ago
Irrelevant.
grecy 13y ago
I'm sick of hearing the United States compared to the typical 2nd and 3rd world countries over and over, which is meaningless. You're doing the same thing as comparing your sports team to the one on the bottom of the ladder - of course your team looks fine compared to the one at the bottom. Why not look up and notice all the teams always above you? Aim higher, aim for improvement.
- anigbrowl 13y ago
  Why do you think Russia Today is reporting this story, while leaving out essential information about how the legal system actually functions? It's designed to make the US court system look bad. If they explained the procedural basis of the judge's decision it would be a non-story.
strlen 13y ago
As a former USSR immigrant, I'll just leave this Soviet joke out there: An American tells a Russian that there's free speech in American; that anyone is free to just go infront of a government building and yell "American president is an idiot." The Russian responds that this is no big deal -- in Russia anyone is also free to go in front of a government building and yell "American president is an idiot." For the record, I strongly support the bill of rights (I also hold the fanatical and extremist belief that there's another integer between the integers 1 and 3...) and am very much opposed to the surveillance state, hounding of whistle blowers, cruel treatment of prisoners, war on drugs, and so forth. I also understand reasons for Snowden to travel to/through those states (he does not want to go to prison and no one else is willing to have him). However, I'll say this unequivocally: from a world-wide perspective, United States is far ahead of rest of the world (including many other liberal democracies) in terms of value put on civil liberties. Most countries are far more communitarian -- there are simply far more exceptions to free speech, privacy, etc... rights and (unlike in the US) many of those exceptions aren't even rooted in protection from a "clear and present danger." (Related: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes )
- Daishiman 13y ago
  > However, I'll say this unequivocally: from a world-wide perspective, United State is far ahead of rest of the world (including many other liberal democracies) in terms of value put on civil liberties. I think you are categorically misinformed on this matter. I urge to look into the human rights legislations that have been enacted in many Latin American countries to see real progress in that area (and I say this as a person who opposes a large number of measures such governments have been taking).
- rmc 13y ago
  there are simply far more exceptions to free speech, privacy, etc Actually, in many ways I'd say that the EU has better privacy rights than the US. The Data Protection Directive covers a lot more privacy stuff than is covered by US law. You're right about "free speech", more things are legal to say in the USA than in EU countries, however that's (I think) at the expense of other human rights. If you give more free speech rights, you take away other rights (e.g. the free speech rights of the Westboro Baptist church to picket funerals takes away the right to privacy and happiness for the family who are burying a family member. The free speech rights to say "$PERSON has erectile disfunction" takes away the right to privacy of $PERSON, etc.). It all depends on how much you value some things. (How much do you value privacy, how much do you value free speech, how much do you value right to life of marginalized groups etc) (I'm using EU because I'm more familiar with it)