12 ms·
Snowden distributed encrypted copies of NSA docs around the world
- rosser 13y agoI'm just going to leave this here: “When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in [Rio de Janeiro] via Skype and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the documents,” Greenwald noted. “I did not end up doing it. Two days later his laptop was stolen from our house and nothing else was taken. Nothing like that has happened before. I am not saying it’s connected to this, but obviously the possibility exists.”
- e3pi 13y agoASK HN: How Does Edward's Dead Man Switch(EDMS) Function? How? So, there are these remote backups/sites out there, encrypted. Say, every week ES has somebody Bob post a keyword somewhere, a forum, pastebin, etc. The owner(s) Alice, Doreen, Glen, etc... of these backup sites manually or 'auto-crontab' for this keyword, or coded sequence of keywords, if so, fine, steady as Edward goes. If not, .... ES released his hand(See hyperventilated Dyson's DMS in Terminator II film) sprung trigger. NOT good: This interrupts the auto-cron periodic keyphrase(word) update and the toothpaste tubes are vigorously flattened, and you can't get the toothpaste back in. (How? ie, How does EDMS trigger release become known to remote system trigger manager Bob or crontab daemon?) Neighbor Bob check's local lampposts for Ed's new white tape once a week? Can Bob be automated?
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- jlgreco 13y agoThis is needlessly complex. Just find people that you trust to hold onto the key, and a few other people to hold onto the file. People who's priorities are aligned properly and are use to being leaned on (journalists and/or activists). When they read in the New York Times that Edward Snowden is dead, some or all of them publish. If you are worried about one of those people colluding with another to get the secret sauce too early, then split the secret. Give it to 50 people and require any 10 of them to release their material. Or whatever, you can tune it how you like depending on how many people you trust and how much you trust them. Automation is unnecessary.
- fixxer 13y agoUm, well, er... no, I prefer crontab. It has let me down far fewer times than mortals. EDIT: An agent running on some VM somewhere isn't that tough to implement. You could do it from a friggin' R-Pi. If the "all clear" isn't posted where it is supposed to be, let the monkeys loose. (Kids in the Hall" reference, fwi)
- e3pi 13y ago> I prefer crontab. It has let me down far fewer times than mortals. This opens lifestyle guidance for our aspiring youth: Prefer crontab. It will let you down far fewer times than mortals. Choose bitcoin over any Ben Bernake or Alan Greenspan currency. Believe Snowdenspeak over Clapperspeak, Kieth Alexander's mouth moving, or any Obama-ism. Go to lunch with Richard Stallman before that mean looking bald-headed angry man with that desperate hunted rictus fixed to his face, who works at Microsoft, but not for much longer.
- staunch 13y ago# cat /etc/cron.daily/dead-man-switch #!/bin/bash wget -O latest https://raw.github.com/asdf/feab/data.txt if [ ! grep `date +%m%d%Y` latest ] ; then echo "The key is uRYB9vCT53jCSkjzaf9b" | mail -s "I'm dead." glenn.greenwald@... fi Wouldn't be hard to run this on a few random computers around the world pretty anonymously. The NSA getting the key isn't too big of a deal. Of course, you'd want to test this and make it more fault tolerant.
- jlgreco 13y agoIt could work, but I know that if I were in Snowden's place I would be more keen on relying on people, and not having to "phone home" (I am fairly confident that news of his demise or "disappearance" would eventually become public).
- danbruc 13y agoFind one, know the page, obtain the logs who accessed the page, find all. Or catch Snowden and keep updating the page yourself. Not that it can not be done in a similar way but it is non-trivial to get it right.
- chacham15 13y agoI agree this is wayyy complicated. All you do is send the encrypted data to whomever you want and then have some servers check an email every day to see if it got an email from snowden indicating the date. If its there repeat tomorrow else email key to journalists/publish on the internet.
- e3pi 13y agoES is vulnerable if physically must be connected. Ideally, if he does a single-bit "I'm alive today" `annnuciator flag', say, once a week, and if this get's interrupted, his total autonomous bot wakes up swinging email, postings, and HWALL w3-wide `Guardian-class Bombshells'.
- antocv 13y agoIts too complicated. I believe any organization worth its salt that has NSA/CIA as enemy would have thought of something better and easier for a fail-safe device, an insurance on their lives if you will. Wikileaks has an insurance of this form. Post encrypted file to everyone. Probably there is several VMs checking in or even scraping most news sites for "Assange dead", and if that happens, pastebin the keys. And even this is complicated. If I would need a dead-man switch, Id include people I trust to release the keys, or parts of the keys in case I need to trust several people to be in agreement at the same time. A technological solution in case I cant trust anyone, then I would run several php scripts on those free hosting sites, or get a plan with heroku or redhats openshift, all of which check for updates from my sock puppet accounts on facebook, g+ and email, weekly or so. Say every other update on at least one of the public services must contain a secret codeword in hidden form like first letter of each sentence or rot3 of those. If no updates are found for three weeks on all the sites, or if the codeword is not there two times, pastebin the keys all over the internets.
- e3pi 13y ago>... like first letter of each sentence or rot3 of those. After all these years, that is the first interesting application I have seen of rot13(I think you intended?). ty
- vinhboy 13y agoIf I am paying so much money for our awesome military industrial complex, I would AT LEAST expect them to know how to stage the house to make it look like a robbery. Or copy the hard drive and then bug the machine & router to intercept all future communications. If the government really did break in and just stole his laptop, this is like the least cool spy thriller ever.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoThe polite, gentlemanly global surveillance state. They only take what they need. They don't make a mess. How nice. "We would be happy to replace the laptop too, but we didn't think you'd want to use the new one."
- anigbrowl 13y agoDoesn't make sense. Implication: USG was listening to GG's Skype conversations, heard him say he would send big encrypted file, USG stole laptop. But GG says he never did send the big encrypted file. So they're supposedly spying on him, but not well enough to notice the non-transmission of the encrypted material.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- lccarrasco 13y agoMaybe there was a transmission of encrypted material (from a third party, something completely unrelated) and since it'd be difficult to determine if it was Snowden's they chose to take it anyways. (this is all, of course, presuming that the USG was responsible)
- kiiski 13y agoPerhaps they didn't want to take the risk that the file somehow got past them (they failed to detect/recognize it, or it was sent another way (courier, etc.)).
- 13y ago
- codex 13y ago"Rio de Janeiro has been rated “Critical” for crime by the State Department for the past 25 years. Crimes statistics for 2012 reflect continued critically high and rising levels of crimes in both the state and city of Rio de Janeiro in the categories of robbery, rape, fraud, and residential thefts." [1] "The high level of residential burglary has made most residents opt to reside in apartments where the “porteiro” (doorman) ensures 24/7 access control for the building. Having effective access control is critical." [1] https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=13966 https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=139...
- throwaway10001 13y agoBut thieves don't just take a laptop once in
- jasonkolb 13y agoGreenwald wasn't in Rio, his colleague was.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y agoPartner, as in domestic partner.
- thomasjoulin 13y agoSo, NSA supposedly has access via PRISM to direct access to Microsoft servers, and yet they supposedly have to go steal a laptop to get access to sent files ?
- cheald 13y agoPerhaps they didn't want access so much as they wanted to remove possession of the files from Greenwald's partner? The NSA presumably already knows what's in the archive.
- Goopplesoft 13y agoNo the key of that phrase was: > I did not end up doing it. It's implying had he sent it the laptop wouldn't have been stolen.
- samstave 13y agoThe machine could have been shutdown before they had the opportunity to slurp the file.
- Dylan16807 13y agoYes. Are you trying to imply that that is odd? "Sent files" as a general case don't live on Microsoft servers.
- o0-0o 13y agoWait, what? This dudes gay?
- GI8A 13y agoReminds me of the time the house I was renting with a bunch of other international students was broken into and obviously searched, but nothing was taken, not even cash.
- contingencies 13y agoHeadline should be CIA burgles house in Brazil? “When I was in Hong Kong, I spoke to my partner in [Rio de Janeiro] via Skype and told him I would send an electronic encrypted copy of the documents,” Greenwald noted. “I did not end up doing it. Two days later his laptop was stolen from our house and nothing else was taken. Nothing like that has happened before. I am not saying it’s connected to this, but obviously the possibility exists.”
- Kylekramer 13y agoThat would be a terrible headline based on that quote. Speculative, sensationalized headlines are undesirable even if they push an agenda you support. Makes it very easy to dismiss.
- contingencies 13y agoSpeculative, sensationalized headlines are undesirable Oh, I agree completely! Unfortunately, copywriters for almost every popular newspaper in the world do this by rote. I added a question mark. :)
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- quackerhacker 13y agoYour title suggestion is too much of an assumption and accusation. While the disclosure of Prism has confirmed what many tech minded people I know have always assumed, it does not stand to reason that other countries do not monitor chatter and would not act on intel that is valuable. Basically, what I'm saying is to keep our minds open while reading these articles...an example of why would be if you remember Huawei Routers not being allowed in certain US infrastructure [0], or Clinton lobbying China to remove it's firewall [1]. Open minds can then start speculating past motivations in old articles. [0] http://www.dailytech.com/Huaweis+CEO+and+Former+PLA+Officer+Says+His+Company+Isnt+a+Threat+to+US/article31518.htm http://www.dailytech.com/Huaweis+CEO+and+Former+PLA+Officer+... [1] http://www.salon.com/2010/01/22/hillary_clinton_internet_freedom/ http://www.salon.com/2010/01/22/hillary_clinton_internet_fre...
- sami36 13y agoI'm starting to think the freakout we've seen in the media up to now is for much more than the Prism disclosure. This guy is the real thing, he's got serious insurance to bargain for his life & he's taken all precautions to safeguard it. No wonder they're scared shitless.
- drivebyacct2 13y agoThe "freakout" in the "media" outside of the HN/reddit/internet bubble is mostly obsessed with "Where in the World is Carmen, I mean Edward, Snowden?" and not so much in the whole PRISM, constant universal wiretapping scandal.
- alan_cx 13y agoExactly. Focus on the man, and not the issue. That is the "freak out".
- k-mcgrady 13y agoI'm in two minds about this. Focussing on this issue is obviously important but I think the general public gets bored of it after a few days. They are much more interested in the human story. Keeping them hooked on that with the obvious regular explanation of who Snowden is and why he's in the news might get people to want to look into the actual story more. And if there is a big 'break' in the story (Snowden captured, makes it to Ecuador, etc.) people will be hooked and then the story of the spying will hold their attention. People (and I include myself) are much more interested in a story about other humans than a computer hacking/spying story that doesn't really involve many specific people directly.
- graeme 13y agoI agree. Outside of Hacker News, no one is talking about PRISM at all. The drama regarding Edward Snowden's whereabout is the only thing keeping the story going. For most people, PRISM was one of 100 stories on their newsfeed that day.
- leeoniya 13y agowasn't this kind of assumed? to go this far and not cover all bases would be incredibly stupid and he doesn't strike me as such.
- bcRIPster 13y agoAgreed and I think the move to travel through China and Russia had to have been part of his plans at the start as this just drags all of the International parties into the fray whether they want to keep it quiet or not. It also then behooves everyone to keep him safe so they don't get escalate the finger pointing game on who might have had him killed. I'd personally like to see less focus on the guy and more on the message though.
- Avalaxy 13y agoInteresting view. Hadn't thought about it like that :) For now China seems to be pretty happy about Snowden.
- quackerhacker 13y agoThis is definitely the only reason I think he is still alive. The NSA has probably done forensic analysis on the workstation that he utilized to transfer the intel...and as Snowden has noted, he does not want to be careless with the information or it's distribution in contrast to Manning. To make it simple, I think he released to the public the appetizer, and has withheld any main course or desert (sorry for the analogies...lunch time).
- jpdoctor 13y agoI hope Glenn has also thought about what should happen if he has a sudden car accident.
- quackerhacker 13y agoJust for the uninformed that may not know what your referencing. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/21/email-sent-by-michael-hastings-hours-before-his-death-mentions-a-big-story-and-a-need-to-go-off-the-radar/ http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/06/21/email-sent-by-mic...
- kamjam 13y agoWoah. The scene of that accident looks straight out of a movie scene, looks too unreal to be a normal car accident!
- jlgreco 13y agoSigh. No, that car hit that tree. It wasn't dropped off by a flatbed truck or something. And yes, cars can catch fire during high-speed collisions. Not to toot my own horn, but... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5936521 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5936521
- VladRussian2 13y agowho said that NSA is limiting themselves only to reading your emails. "Bush advisor: Hastings crash ‘consistent with a car cyberattack’" http://rt.com/usa/michael-hastings-cyber-car-218/ http://rt.com/usa/michael-hastings-cyber-car-218/
- jlgreco 13y agoI am not denying the possibility that there was fowl play. I am denying that "the wreck looks like something from a movie" is evidence of anything at all. Keen difference there.
- pvnick 13y agoI wonder to what degree Wikileaks held Snowden's hand through all of this? For those who remember, Assange's organization distributed a large encrypted archive through bittorrent around the diplomatic cable leaks, presumably with a dead-man's switch [1] set up to reveal the key. I'm sure that Snowden had some procedures in place before departing to Hong Kong, but I also recall Assange saying they were trying to reach out to Snowden a week or two ago, and perhaps (hopefully!) they were able to give him some insurance tips, including potential pitfalls that Snowden may not have thought of. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_man's_switch http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_man's_switch
- mpyne 13y agoIf it's at all true that Assange had foreknowledge of Snowden's attempt to re-penetrate NSA via B-A-H, that would be very bad news for Wikileaks IMHO.
- pvnick 13y agoNot saying it goes back that far, but referring to more recent times. Like over the past couple weeks. I don't think anybody in the world other than Snowden himself knew of his plans to penetrate BAH. But even if they did, who cares? As long as they didn't help him, I do not believe that knowledge of an impending crime is in-and-of itself a crime (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). What are they gonna do? Trump up some sexual assault charges?
- mpyne 13y agoWell it would be conspiracy to commit a felony for starters. And how do you think the American people would handle the idea of a foreign-born spymaster using his acolytes to infiltrate the national security apparatus, however angelic he claims his motives to be?
- morsch 13y agoPlenty of other countries around whose residents are happy to find out in what kind of ways we rightless non-residents are being informationally manhandled by you.
- pmorici 13y agoSo all anyone that wants access to the whole of what he has recovered needs to do is kill him and then it will all be released? That doesn't seem like a good position to put ones self in.
- TillE 13y agoSnowden isn't carrying military secrets or anything. Details about internet/phone surveillance are of relatively little consequence to foreign governments, who certainly have a good idea of what's going on already.
- smegel 13y agoAnd just like Wikileaks the trickle of information will gradually dry up and we never hear anything again. The thing I hate most about these leakers is that they have huge stores of documents but only release a tiny fraction.
- kintamanimatt 13y agoThat makes sense. As Snowden said in one of the interviews, the reason he doesn't want to release everything is so that other countries don't have a blueprint from which to develop their own PRISM.
- mpyne 13y agoIs Snowden still focused on PRISM alone? The blueprint to that is already out, it's called FISA and FISA Amendments perhaps sprinkled with a bit of Ruby on Rails and web services magic.
- kintamanimatt 13y agoI just assumed he was talking about the technical, not legal, blueprint. I highly doubt a full stack web framework would be the right hammer to spy on the world's communications!
- mpyne 13y agoPRISM doesn't spy on the world's communications. It automates FISA warrant compliance, you're probably thinking of one or more of the many other NSA systems out there.
- kintamanimatt 13y agoProbably! It's easy to lose track!
- wyck 13y agoWikileaks made their "insurance" available to everyone via torrent... in other words they have safety in numbers. Snowden having distributed to file to "many different " people is vague and if the # is small could put them in real danger.
- jlgreco 13y agoOn the other hand, he's been to both Hong Kong and China now. Government officials from either country may be among those people with the encrypted data. Whether or not they release the encrypted data when/if the key is publicized doesn't really matter. Publicly distributing the encrypted data does seem to be better to me, but making it ambiguous as to whether or not foreign governments have it seems like it could be a decent second best.
- babesh 13y agoHe's no ordinary system administrator. This whole thing seems very well thought through.
- thufry 13y agoThis is the kind of thing which may help keep him physically safe, but massively hurts him both in the court of public opinion (which matters a lot, if his actions are to have any positive effect for the public), and should he stand trial in the United States (although, one could argue that if it gets to that he's lost either way). It puts the people arguing for a pardon for him in a much tougher position.
- corford 13y agoWhy? The data is encrypted so unless he divulges the key, it's useless to whomever has it. Also, we don't know what the data contains. So even if he does give out the key and the media start publishing, who's to say what comes out wont be in the public interest? I think it's a bit early to say this strategy has massively hurt him.
- thufry 13y agoIt doesn't matter what the data is at this point, since it's encrypted, but what it says, to a disinterested observer, is that Snowden is the sort of person who would gladly wield the threat of disseminating classified US information as a way of protecting his own skin. This directly contradicts the falling-on-my-sword, leaving-my-girlfriend-and-highly-paid job martyr/hero positioning he's been going for. Snowden is coming to light as a complex character, not some altruistic idealist who expects a pardon and a ticker-tape parade. Phrases that come to mind are "David vs. Goliath," "Catch me if you Can," and "John Le Carre." I love it because it's a more interesting story this way.
- corford 13y agoI see your point. I guess I feel that the majority of people _are_ capable of realising real life doesn't imitate Hollywood and Snowden quite rightly needs to take some sensible precautions if he is to have any hope of sustaining this story and effecting the public debate and ensuing policy changes he's fighting for.
- 13y ago
- rdouble 13y agoI wish Greenwald would share these documents that are so shocking and revealing. I would like to see what all this fuss has really been about.
- ryanhuff 13y agoIf it was known (assumed) that Snowden sent Greenwald files, don't you think every intelligence group in the world with an interest in obtaining US classified information would be very motivated to obtain that chip?
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- gesman 13y agoThis is double-edged sword! While USA/NSA does not want Snowden dead to keep secrets for as long as possible - suddenly half of the world might become more interested in exactly that to happen rather sooner than later.
- thomasjames 13y agoI wonder how he was able to amass thousands of documents within two months of being in his current position while still screening them for information beyond the scope of what he was trying to leak. The possibility that there is confidential information about foreign operations outside of the internet surveillance makes me lose a great deal of respect for him. I also don't trust someone who wasn't even able to manage a GED to read through thousands of intelligence documents... just putting that out there. I feel like many have been too quick to give this guy a free pass.