6 ms·

"This week, I need to speak to the other founder and fire our first employee before he leaves on a planned vacation. He’s a good developer, but I won’t fucking

"This week, I need to speak to the other founder and fire our first employee before he leaves on a planned vacation. He’s a good developer, but I won’t fucking make payroll next week if I don’t clear him and his severance out of the company." Is it wrong that I feel worse for this employee than for the author? He's looking forward to a (probably well-earned) vacation, and he's about to be forced into a job hunt instead.

calinet6 13y ago
This happened to me 6 weeks ago. I'm now happily employed at another (slightly more stable) startup with good work and a better situation. Trust me, any employee would be happier to be in a stable and improving startup than in one that's going downhill anyway. If they're a dev with startup experience, they'll have no trouble finding a new job and will be better for it. Don't worry, just be honest and open with them ASAP. The worst thing you can do is keep them in the dark.
hidingmyname 13y ago
You should. I feel fucking shitty about this.
- damon_c 13y ago
  Can't you wait till he gets back so he can have a good vacation?...Although I've seen the whole "got fired upon returning from vacation" thing happen a few times. That sucks too! Sorry for both of you.
  - throwit1979 13y ago
    Apparently you missed the part about not meeting payroll. There are few things worse( legally, in employment law )than missing payroll.
    - beat 13y ago
      Ugh. I remember what it was like the first time the 2000-era dotcom I was at missed payroll. A co-worker and I had taken the day off to take our kids to the state fair, and found our money wasn't where we thought it would be. They announced the payroll shortfall the day it happened, in company email we didn't read because we were off that day. Kinda sucked.
    - RyJones 13y ago
      I've alerted firms that missed payroll of the law violation via a couriered legal notice from a labor lawyer. I got my money when nobody else did.
- rastyyle 13y ago
  Good luck with the convo man. I've been through similar situations on both ends and its not easy for either side. Hopefully he has a healthy respect for you and understands the circumstances involved. No telling how he'll react but let him vent if he needs to.
- Nutella4 13y ago
  Then make plans to do this shitty job in as kind and professional manner as possible. That means NOT stringing people along. Sit down and figure out whether you're going to be able to keep people employed at 100% of their current pay and benefits. If you know you can't, then the biggest favor you can do for them is to lay them off quickly so they can start looking for a new job immediately. If you can make some calls to get them leads at other places that's great, but the most helpful thing you can do for them is to let them go as soon as you know that they have no future at your company. I've done firing and layoffs and I know it's hard. Delaying it makes it all much worse, for you and the departing employees.
UK-AL 13y ago
Its why I don't get the idea that being an employee is a 'safe' option. Your only as safe as the company you are working for. And frankly you look better as failed founder, then a developer at a failed start up.
joezydeco 13y ago
That's a tough spot and I've been there, as the employee that's on the fence as the management nail-bites over accounts receivable and wondering if they can make payroll. I've since learned that you keep your ears to the ground at all times, in ANY company you work for. You don't sit in your cube with your Dr Beat Headphones on, you listen to office talk. You overhear that phone call from a vendor asking where their overdue payment is. You notice the rise in closed-door meetings between management and the CFO. You make friends with the assistant that cuts the checks. When you've done it long enough, you know where you stand and when it's time to get the hell out before you're caught with your pants down.
- obviouslygreen 13y ago
  This is just no way to live. If you find yourself doing this, you're either needlessly paranoid and worrying yourself into an early grave, or you're justifiably paranoid, and you should reconsider the choices you're making regarding employment. Obviously we don't all have the option to bail at any time and find other work, but if this is the kind of culture you're seeing as normal, I feel very sorry for you. Anyone in this position should -- for their own good -- at least attempt to take a longer view and see if they have options that don't involve constantly sleuthing to narrow down your job's expiration date. Unless you actually like living like this... in which case, hey, it takes all kinds. ;)
  - joezydeco 13y ago
    I'm not advocating sneaking around and spying on your co-workers. I'm not suggesting paranoia. What I'm saying is that it's not a bad idea to understand the health of your employer (commercially, competitively, and financially) and recognize when that health changes for better or worse. If I get up and ask 10 co-workers who our biggest competitors are, I can guarantee 5 of them couldn't answer that question. If I asked the winning 5 which ones were growing and could possibly eat our lunch, 4 of them would fail that test. Have you ever been let go from a job after being told for months/years that everything was fine and the company was doing great? I have. Luckily, at the time, I had no substantial obligations such as raising a family. Now I do. I learned from that point on to never be blindsided again. And it's worked well for me so far. And I'm not a paranoid person at all. I sleep pretty well, actually.
marchra 13y ago
Why not fire him after he comes back from vacation? Company is going under either way.

calinet6 13y ago

This happened to me 6 weeks ago. I'm now happily employed at another (slightly more stable) startup with good work and a better situation. Trust me, any employee would be happier to be in a stable and improving startup than in one that's going downhill anyway. If they're a dev with startup experience, they'll have no trouble finding a new job and will be better for it. Don't worry, just be honest and open with them ASAP. The worst thing you can do is keep them in the dark.

hidingmyname 13y ago

You should. I feel fucking shitty about this.

damon_c 13y ago
Can't you wait till he gets back so he can have a good vacation?...Although I've seen the whole "got fired upon returning from vacation" thing happen a few times. That sucks too! Sorry for both of you.
- throwit1979 13y ago
  Apparently you missed the part about not meeting payroll. There are few things worse( legally, in employment law )than missing payroll.
  - beat 13y ago
    Ugh. I remember what it was like the first time the 2000-era dotcom I was at missed payroll. A co-worker and I had taken the day off to take our kids to the state fair, and found our money wasn't where we thought it would be. They announced the payroll shortfall the day it happened, in company email we didn't read because we were off that day. Kinda sucked.
  - RyJones 13y ago
    I've alerted firms that missed payroll of the law violation via a couriered legal notice from a labor lawyer. I got my money when nobody else did.
rastyyle 13y ago
Good luck with the convo man. I've been through similar situations on both ends and its not easy for either side. Hopefully he has a healthy respect for you and understands the circumstances involved. No telling how he'll react but let him vent if he needs to.
Nutella4 13y ago
Then make plans to do this shitty job in as kind and professional manner as possible. That means NOT stringing people along. Sit down and figure out whether you're going to be able to keep people employed at 100% of their current pay and benefits. If you know you can't, then the biggest favor you can do for them is to lay them off quickly so they can start looking for a new job immediately. If you can make some calls to get them leads at other places that's great, but the most helpful thing you can do for them is to let them go as soon as you know that they have no future at your company. I've done firing and layoffs and I know it's hard. Delaying it makes it all much worse, for you and the departing employees.

UK-AL 13y ago

Its why I don't get the idea that being an employee is a 'safe' option. Your only as safe as the company you are working for. And frankly you look better as failed founder, then a developer at a failed start up.

joezydeco 13y ago

That's a tough spot and I've been there, as the employee that's on the fence as the management nail-bites over accounts receivable and wondering if they can make payroll. I've since learned that you keep your ears to the ground at all times, in ANY company you work for. You don't sit in your cube with your Dr Beat Headphones on, you listen to office talk. You overhear that phone call from a vendor asking where their overdue payment is. You notice the rise in closed-door meetings between management and the CFO. You make friends with the assistant that cuts the checks. When you've done it long enough, you know where you stand and when it's time to get the hell out before you're caught with your pants down.

obviouslygreen 13y ago
This is just no way to live. If you find yourself doing this, you're either needlessly paranoid and worrying yourself into an early grave, or you're justifiably paranoid, and you should reconsider the choices you're making regarding employment. Obviously we don't all have the option to bail at any time and find other work, but if this is the kind of culture you're seeing as normal, I feel very sorry for you. Anyone in this position should -- for their own good -- at least attempt to take a longer view and see if they have options that don't involve constantly sleuthing to narrow down your job's expiration date. Unless you actually like living like this... in which case, hey, it takes all kinds. ;)
- joezydeco 13y ago
  I'm not advocating sneaking around and spying on your co-workers. I'm not suggesting paranoia. What I'm saying is that it's not a bad idea to understand the health of your employer (commercially, competitively, and financially) and recognize when that health changes for better or worse. If I get up and ask 10 co-workers who our biggest competitors are, I can guarantee 5 of them couldn't answer that question. If I asked the winning 5 which ones were growing and could possibly eat our lunch, 4 of them would fail that test. Have you ever been let go from a job after being told for months/years that everything was fine and the company was doing great? I have. Luckily, at the time, I had no substantial obligations such as raising a family. Now I do. I learned from that point on to never be blindsided again. And it's worked well for me so far. And I'm not a paranoid person at all. I sleep pretty well, actually.

marchra 13y ago

Why not fire him after he comes back from vacation? Company is going under either way.