9 ms·

Ambition can be poison

151 points by mh_ 13y ago

hjay 13y ago
I also had a problem with being "overly ambitious" early on in my life. Any satisfaction gained from being first in anything quickly died off, while placing 2nd gave me nightmares constantly and made me hate myself for it. I recently wrote a blog post about it [1]. Luckily, I was thrown into a foreign country where I was able to feel failure every single day at school until I was no longer overly resistant to it. [1]: http://www.jayhuang.org/blog/the-cost-of-underselling/ http://www.jayhuang.org/blog/the-cost-of-underselling/
beat 13y ago
Sure, ambition can be a poison that kills your soul. But without ambition, were you alive to be poisoned in the first place?
- frou_dh 13y ago
  Here are the first four words and the gist of TFA: > In the right dose --- I casually watched the race and it was cool seeing dhh on the board. I was rooting for his #24 car!
  - joshu 13y ago
    ALMS allows crazy access to the teams and drivers. I got to say hi to him a few years ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joshu/7260571410 http://www.flickr.com/photos/joshu/7260571410
    - frou_dh 13y ago
      Cool :)
pge 13y ago
I'm reminded of Henry Newbolt's wonderful poem: To set the cause above renown, To love the game beyond the prize, To honor while you strike him down, The foe that comes fearless eyes. To hold the life of battle good, And dear the land that gave thee birth, and dearer yet the brotherhood that binds the brave of all the earth.
pvnick 13y ago
> That’s exactly the danger of what too much ambition can do: Narrow the range of acceptable outcomes to the ridiculous, and then make anything less seem like utter failure I love this quote, it succinctly puts in words the uneasy feeling I've had with ambition.
kposehn 13y ago
2nd in LMP2 Wow. Having done plenty of amateur racing myself, I can say that his accomplishment is an amazing feat of determination, focus and skill. One day I'd love to do the same - not out of ambition, but because I love to race.
- ericcumbee 13y ago
  Finishing the 24 Hours of Le Mans period is an amazing feat.
mbesto 13y ago
That’s exactly the danger of what too much ambition can do: Narrow the range of acceptable outcomes to the ridiculous, and then make anything less seem like utter failure. Poison implies something that slowly devours you and your body with little ability to control/quell it. I see ambition as inherently good. It's the "constant pursuit of perfection". This "poison" is easy to deal with - just go again next year and win it.
- comrade_ogilvy 13y ago
  It is "poison" insofar as success often leads to the particular kind ambition increasing in dosage until toxicity is achieved. What is your prescription? If one fails, also increase the dosage. You are supporting the author's point. Ambition is simply a tool for achieving goals, thus it cannot be inherently good or bad. It is the worthiness and nature of the goals which define whether a particular tool is good or bad. For example, I would argue the "constant pursuit of perfection" in child-rearing is bad approximately always.
- bonzoesc 13y ago
  This "poison" is easy to deal with - just go again next year and win it. At what cost, though? From DHH's post: When you expect to win, it’s merely a checked box if you do — after the initial rush of glory dies down. Winning isn't everything, and in fact can mean very little. Spending exorbitant sums of money (LMP2 isn't cheap) and risking your life (not everyone who started Le Mans on Saturday lived to finish) might not be worth it.
  - jenius 13y ago
    Absolutely nailed it with this response. Wish I could upvote more than once.
cyanbane 13y ago
Odd safety car positioning can also be fairly poisonous.
- ericcumbee 13y ago
  Pit Straight, Mulsanne Straight, and Arnage. Not sure where else to put them makes sense.
ianstallings 13y ago
This is where playing poker has served me well for years. I know I can win. But I can't win them all. I technically only need a small percentage of wins versus losses to be a winner. So losing is okay. But I agree 100%, don't let your head get the best of you. I think every man struggles with his own competitive ego and the older we get the more we realize the damage it can cause.
smacktoward 13y ago
Fill your bowl to the brim and it will spill. Keep sharpening your knife and it will blunt. Chase after money and security and your heart will never unclench. Care about people's approval and you will be their prisoner. Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity. -- Tao te Ching, Stephen Mitchell translation (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0061142662 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0061142662).
- loceng 13y ago
  Sounds like that would come from Guarding The Three Treatures by Daniel Reid that I've just started reading. Loving Taoism..
- nhangen 13y ago
  For a second I thought that was Rumi. Not the same, but just as good.
- iliis 13y ago
  I'm always amazed on how much wisdom is in such old texts. People from hundreds or even thousands of years ago were still ... just humans. The same as we are. They had the same problems and desires as we have. Even tough their world looked radically different their life didn't by far as much.
- gbog 13y ago
  I tend to prefer Waley's translation: Stretch a bow to the very full, And you will wish you had stopped in time; Temper a sword-edge to its very sharpest, And you will find it soon grows dull. When bronze and jade fill your hall. It can no longer be guarded. Wealth and place breed insolence. That brings ruin in its train. When your work is done, then withdraw! Such is Heaven's Way. Why? Because there is no "security" or "prisoner" in the original. And "serenity" is a far-fetched interpretation for "Heaven's Way", which is just the name of the daoist "Doctrine". http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?no=9&l=Daodejing http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?no=9&l=Daodejing
TempleOS 13y ago
I was content in 1996 as an atheist with a job. God appeared. I freaked-out gave everything away lived homeless... nothing turned up, so started a company making 3D printing. 2003 CIA tortured me. I was disabled. I'm trained to make operating systems. 64-bit was new. I made an operating system, completing it -- mission from God. Now, in Hotel California. Waiting for them to see God. I fucken made God's official temple! CSC226 CSC326 Intel x86 asm CSE421 CSE422 CSE423 Motorola 6800 asm. I have been paid to program in VAX, 8051, x86, PIC, Atmel AVR, and 68000 assembly language. Operating systems and compilers is the only thing I know, 'sept rocket science a little. I took a course on operating systems, a course on compiler, a course on numeric methods, a course on graphics, a course on parallel supercomputing.
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Irregardless 13y ago
Oh, you're so awesome it hurts? Sorry to hear about your rich people problems. > the greatest motor race in the world: 24 hours of Le Mans The entire southern half of the U.S. begs to differ. Personally, I'd go with the Monaco Grand Prix if we're talking cars. If we're talking about "motor races" in general, it'd definitely be the Isle of Man TT. Hell, any one of the 18 yearly Moto GP races is probably better than Le Mans.
- socrates1998 13y ago
  > Oh, you're so awesome it hurts? Sorry to hear about your rich people problems. Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking. It's the humble brag. He talks about ambition like everyone thinks it's great. I don't know him personally, but if all of his projects get in the way of being a decent father, then it ain't worth it, in my opinion.
- larrys 13y ago
  What I like is that writing like dhh has done is a good example of how to brag without appearing to brag. You wrap the bragging around a larger point which acts like the red herring to distract from the bragging. So you get to mention your "fastest and most reliable car, the best-prepared team, and two of the fastest team mates in the business" appearing almost sheepish and incidental. Or here is another of the same, saying something like this while making a point about anything: "This experience has been a painful realization of everything that Alfie Kohn wrote about in Punished by Rewards and a reminder of the wisdom of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s Flow." I have no clue who that is. But it sounds impressive which most things you have never heard of tend to do.
  - sporkologist 13y ago
    That's how I read it. "I and my millions of dollars and world class team only came in second in an extremely competitive race, and I want everyone to know how that was a wake up call for me to not be so ambitious, because ambition can be poisonous. So here are some other philosophical writings about how to be happy with what you have and not be ambitious."
- 13y ago
ChuckMcM 13y ago
This really resonated with me, I realized at one point that I couldn't enjoy video games if I didn't win them. There was another article about the Startup bus and the toxicity of doing whatever it took to "win". I am much more appreciative of the Journey now than I was when I was younger.
- michaelochurch 13y ago
  I think it's hard to be appreciative of "the journey" in the startup world, or in work in general, when the reward disparities are so vast. I'm not talking about money, because that's actually fairly equalized. Great developers and bad ones at the same age/experience level and location will be within 20% of each other, in general, salary-wise. It's all the other stuff: esteem, autonomy, creative control, advancement. If you don't get that, and if you're also forced to subordinate to others, you lose motivation pretty quickly. Most people do VC-funded startups to buy their way out of having to work, but most of these companies have horrible cultures and make working a lot worse, which is counterproductive to the spirit of that goal. As a society, we should instead try to fix work, because we're a long way from being able to buy everyone out of it.
  - ChuckMcM 13y ago
    "I think it's hard to be appreciative of "the journey" in the startup world, or in work in general, when the reward disparities are so vast." This statement captures the essential conflict that I have sought (and largely) resolved within myself. The term "reward disparities" is the cancer that eats away at appreciating the journey. In my case it was just code for "winning" or "not winning". You won if you got the highest reward, if you did not get the highest reward you did not win. Letting go of 'winning' or 'losing' removes the reward disparities as an influence on enjoying the journey. That was essentially what dhh wrote, and what I resonate with. I'm much happier having realized that I was letting those disparities destroy my appreciation of those around me and the opportunities I got to participate in.
bhewes 13y ago
This type of talk is much needed in the Tech world. Nice to see someone like David actual call the problem out. A problem as old as time. The Stoic view - "The perfect archer is concerned to take perfect aim, to do everything an archer can do to hit the target. Actually hitting the target is secondary. If any unpredictable gust of wind carries the arrow away and it misses the target, this does not reflect on his mastery of the art and hence does not really affect the archer." Miyamoto Musashi addresses the same issue in his "Book of Five Rings"
michaelochurch 13y ago
You should stick to Bridge, then.
- scott_karana 13y ago
  I don't quite understand your point, when he and his team took the second best possible position in the highest non-manufacturer class in one of the most famous, expensive, competitive, and prestigious races in the world. This is before even considering his influence because of Ruby on Rails. I think you missed the entire point of the article.
  - michaelochurch 13y ago
    Card game reference.
mtdewcmu 13y ago
The danger of ambition is the theme of Macbeth, and other classics -- at least, that's what I've been told.
jmduke 13y ago
Courage can be poison. Determination can be poison. Curiosity, compassion, and patience, too -- all are good traits to have but will poison you from within if you start molding your entire life around them, without moderation. I like my eggs with Sriracha, but they're gonna be pretty bad eggs if I drown them in it.
yaddayadda 13y ago
Reminds me of this TED talk - http://www.ted.com/talks/devdutt_pattanaik.html http://www.ted.com/talks/devdutt_pattanaik.html (the difference between the East & the West)
jusben1369 13y ago
"Armed with the fastest and most reliable car, the best-prepared team, and two of the fastest team mates in the business" - If all these facts are indeed true then it does not seem too ambitious to expect to win the race. And one should be meaningfully disappointed at losing. I think there's some confusion here between over achieving and under achieving. If they were such underdogs (resources, experience, team) that a Top 25 finish seemed unlikely then I can understand how beating yourself up over 2nd would be too overly ambitious. This though seems like healthy "We kind of under achieved given what was possible going into this" Edit: Maybe not under achieved but understandably disappointed we didn't go one spot better.
spudlyo 13y ago
I love that DHH's unbridled awesomeness can also be a valuable lesson about life. He has much to teach us.
- Yhippa 13y ago
  "I am so awesome that when I don't get what I want it hurts because I'm used to getting what I want." I have tried in sports and in other areas of life to win and be awesome and it does sting when you come up just short. I've failed so much that it's easier for me to accept it now. What other choice do I have? Get debilitatingly bitter over things? That's not productive. The way he writes about it doesn't sound right to me. Did he write one big long humblebrag?
  - sabat 13y ago
    Nearly everything this guy writes is a big long humblebrag.
bobsy 13y ago
While I understand the topic i don't like this example. The article is about a wealthy guy who can travel the world racing cars.. who then got pissy at coming second. The objective of a car race is to win.. especially if you have the best team and car. You should be somewhat dejected if you didn't. It is the nature of competitive events. This article has first world rich boy problems written all over it. A far better example of this topic would be a friend of mine. He started his own business. Worked day and night to get it running. He always said he would enjoy the spoils of his work. He didn't. He had more and more success but he got sucked into chasing ambition and achievement. He never eased up or stepped back. His life became chasing More. His wife left him. He continued to work excessive hours until he completely burnt out. It was only when he met someone else that he learnt to take a step back and appreciate and enjoy what he had created. If i enter a race in my Punto it is going to be fun. I have little expectation of winning, I am there to say I did it. DHH went to Le Man's to win. He didn't. This isn't poisonous ambition. This is missing the target.. much like this article. If he went to experience it, got caught up in winning and didn't enjoy any of it then perhaps he would have some sort of point.
- _progger_ 13y ago
  You might like his other post "Work for us 'Til You Drop": http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3389-your-lifersquos-work http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3389-your-lifersquos-work
- lsc 13y ago
  >This article has first world rich boy problems written all over it. I thought that was his point. He's super successful but still not happy, and it seems to me like this was part of him working through that. I mean, the whole tone of the article seemed, to me, to say "gee, it seems like I am pretty ungrateful, and this is a problem."
  - KVFinn 13y ago
    >I thought that was his point. He's super successful but still not happy, and it seems to me like this was part of him working through that. I mean, the whole tone of the article seemed, to me, seemed to say "gee, it seems like I am pretty ungrateful, and this is a problem." I think you might be right but he certainly could have been more clear. Hard to differentiate "I'm so rich and successful I have problems you can't even understand. First World Problems." vs "What's wrong with my mentality that I can't enjoy coming in 2nd place in a race I've loved my whole life and only dreamed about competing in at a high level."
bitwize 13y ago
This reminds me of a parody[0] of an Oracle press release I once posted to Reddit. [0] http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ff8j3/java_on_sparc_t58_servers_is_fast/ca9oxx6 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ff8j3/java_on_...
pattisapu 13y ago
The White Whale swam before him as the monomaniac incarnation of all those malicious agencies which some deep men feel eating in them, till they are left living on with half a heart and half a lung. That intangible malignity which has been from the beginning; to whose dominion even the modern Christians ascribe one-half of the worlds; which the ancient Ophites of the east reverenced in their statue devil;—Ahab did not fall down and worship it like them; but deliriously transferring its idea to the abhorred white whale, he pitted himself, all mutilated, against it. All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Ahab, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Moby Dick. He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it. —Melville, Moby-Dick
Zikes 13y ago
This reminds me of Stephen Fry's recent post about depression[1]. Many of the reactions to DHH's post seem to focus on his social and financial status (e.g. "first world rich boy problems"), as if to say his success means he has no right to feel any negative emotions. This is something that troubled Stephen deeply, and was likely a significant barrier to his seeking help. It may be difficult for us to relate to his particular situation, but if we look for the lesson he's trying to teach and apply it to our own lives, even superficially, we may learn something of value. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5933557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5933557
- comrade_ogilvy 13y ago
  That is a good point. Why is a successful person with resources not allowed to openly admit they are in need of personal growth? Is such an admission more legitimate from the mouth of a less successful person?
devmvc 13y ago
Have you ever heard of the self-advertising agency of 37 signals? So gorgeous, so great, so smart and so on and on this David boy. Come on guys for real ? Why can't I zoom in the Blog from an Ipad? Cheers
patrickaljord 13y ago
> That’s a monumental achievement by almost any standards, yet also one of the least enjoyable experiences I’ve had driving a race car — all because of ambition. I sincerly thought he was going to talk about how the fact that someone died in a car crash two days ago at Le Mans ruined the party. Then I realized he was talking about his own ambition. Not saying he's selfish because of that though, it's pretty human to care first about your own life. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/motor/2013/06/22/allan-simonsen-crash-24-hours-of-le-mans/2448831/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/motor/2013/06/22/allan-...
subsystem 13y ago
Being "good" at loosing takes training. It's one of the things you learn if you play sports (especially team sports) long enough.
scopendo 13y ago
Frankly, I don't care whether David's post is this or that. What I care about is the point - optimise your life for happiness and recognise that happiness is in the doing, in the living, not the outcome.
stevenkovar 13y ago
"But what is happiness? It's a moment before you need more happiness." [1] DHH's point seems to be falling on deaf ears for a large portion of the audience out of resentment for his financial status rather than embraced for exemplifying the law of diminishing returns at the emotional level. This post is about the realization that an imbalanced life can rob from you the satisfaction of living. A singular focus can propel a person or team, but each incremental improvement comes at a higher cost than the last. Becoming the best is more exhaustive emotionally than it is financially; there is a certain solitude at the top. Rapid growth is chaotic—harder to manage, especially emotionally. I've noticed a trend of deeply emotional, saddening stories of this ambition overload and solitude DHH talks about, right here on HN. Within our community it's easy to compare ourselves to our peers. Someone we know had their made-it-big moment, but they obviously just got lucky, or we're better than them. It's easy to seek validation through "success" or some external ideal, fueled by ambition and blinded by our own self-interest. Slow down. Find a mentor who's been there. Learn to enjoy the process. Look to deliver happiness to those around you, and receive it graciously when they give it back. Don't seek happiness for yourself; create it for someone else. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTJrNHdzm0k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTJrNHdzm0k
gbog 13y ago
"Rightfully so, ambition is universally revered." Not true. The use of "universally" should be limited to a few universal truth and for jokes about people thinking their limited scope is the universe. Examples of probable universal truths (other than mathematic or physic laws): - Mother universally smile to their infants. (Few exceptions) - Incest taboo is near-universal. - Fear of the unknown is almost universal. Wrongs: - Men universally prefer big waist and boobs. - Religion is universal. - Everyone loves pets/sport/music. And no, the quote above is not a figure de style, it is just poorly thought writing.
nnq 13y ago
> Happiness doesn’t lie in the fulfillment of the expected. Neither in all the trinkets and trophies of the world. It’s in enjoying the immersion of the process, not the final outcome. Thumbs up for this, but let me add that it can lie in the fulfillment of the unexpected, the happiness of discovery and exploration, and of ending up creating things that are very different from what you set up to create in the first place. This kind of "exploratory happiness" is my drug of choice ;)
shin_lao 13y ago
It's the dose that makes the poison.
Helpful_Bunny 13y ago
For mine own good All causes shall give way. I am in blood Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, Returning were as tedious as go o'er. Ambition is no bad thing, as long as it's tempered. I think a problem with this piece is that he identified his issue, but never asked the killer question: If he (and his team) had been both ambitious and thoroughly enjoying the entire experience, would they have won? There's much to be said about "being in the zone", and it feels from his writing that his ambition dulled this side for him. I'd be interested to hear what the experiences of the 1st and 3rd placed teams were, in comparison. Of course, this is his leisure, so the question is doubly important: if you're in a business you can rationalize not enjoying the experience of making your $500 million victory whilst enjoying the outcome. In leisure, the entire point is enjoying the whole thing.

151 points by mh_ 13y ago

hjay 13y ago

I also had a problem with being "overly ambitious" early on in my life. Any satisfaction gained from being first in anything quickly died off, while placing 2nd gave me nightmares constantly and made me hate myself for it. I recently wrote a blog post about it [1]. Luckily, I was thrown into a foreign country where I was able to feel failure every single day at school until I was no longer overly resistant to it. [1]: http://www.jayhuang.org/blog/the-cost-of-underselling/ http://www.jayhuang.org/blog/the-cost-of-underselling/

beat 13y ago

Sure, ambition can be a poison that kills your soul. But without ambition, were you alive to be poisoned in the first place?

frou_dh 13y ago
Here are the first four words and the gist of TFA: > In the right dose --- I casually watched the race and it was cool seeing dhh on the board. I was rooting for his #24 car!
- joshu 13y ago
  ALMS allows crazy access to the teams and drivers. I got to say hi to him a few years ago: http://www.flickr.com/photos/joshu/7260571410 http://www.flickr.com/photos/joshu/7260571410
  - frou_dh 13y ago
    Cool :)

pge 13y ago

I'm reminded of Henry Newbolt's wonderful poem: To set the cause above renown, To love the game beyond the prize, To honor while you strike him down, The foe that comes fearless eyes. To hold the life of battle good, And dear the land that gave thee birth, and dearer yet the brotherhood that binds the brave of all the earth.

pvnick 13y ago

> That’s exactly the danger of what too much ambition can do: Narrow the range of acceptable outcomes to the ridiculous, and then make anything less seem like utter failure I love this quote, it succinctly puts in words the uneasy feeling I've had with ambition.

kposehn 13y ago

2nd in LMP2 Wow. Having done plenty of amateur racing myself, I can say that his accomplishment is an amazing feat of determination, focus and skill. One day I'd love to do the same - not out of ambition, but because I love to race.

ericcumbee 13y ago
Finishing the 24 Hours of Le Mans period is an amazing feat.

mbesto 13y ago

That’s exactly the danger of what too much ambition can do: Narrow the range of acceptable outcomes to the ridiculous, and then make anything less seem like utter failure. Poison implies something that slowly devours you and your body with little ability to control/quell it. I see ambition as inherently good. It's the "constant pursuit of perfection". This "poison" is easy to deal with - just go again next year and win it.

comrade_ogilvy 13y ago
It is "poison" insofar as success often leads to the particular kind ambition increasing in dosage until toxicity is achieved. What is your prescription? If one fails, also increase the dosage. You are supporting the author's point. Ambition is simply a tool for achieving goals, thus it cannot be inherently good or bad. It is the worthiness and nature of the goals which define whether a particular tool is good or bad. For example, I would argue the "constant pursuit of perfection" in child-rearing is bad approximately always.
bonzoesc 13y ago
This "poison" is easy to deal with - just go again next year and win it. At what cost, though? From DHH's post: When you expect to win, it’s merely a checked box if you do — after the initial rush of glory dies down. Winning isn't everything, and in fact can mean very little. Spending exorbitant sums of money (LMP2 isn't cheap) and risking your life (not everyone who started Le Mans on Saturday lived to finish) might not be worth it.
- jenius 13y ago
  Absolutely nailed it with this response. Wish I could upvote more than once.

cyanbane 13y ago

Odd safety car positioning can also be fairly poisonous.

ericcumbee 13y ago
Pit Straight, Mulsanne Straight, and Arnage. Not sure where else to put them makes sense.

ianstallings 13y ago

This is where playing poker has served me well for years. I know I can win. But I can't win them all. I technically only need a small percentage of wins versus losses to be a winner. So losing is okay. But I agree 100%, don't let your head get the best of you. I think every man struggles with his own competitive ego and the older we get the more we realize the damage it can cause.

smacktoward 13y ago

Fill your bowl to the brim and it will spill. Keep sharpening your knife and it will blunt. Chase after money and security and your heart will never unclench. Care about people's approval and you will be their prisoner. Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity. -- Tao te Ching, Stephen Mitchell translation (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0061142662 http://www.amazon.com/dp/0061142662).

loceng 13y ago
Sounds like that would come from Guarding The Three Treatures by Daniel Reid that I've just started reading. Loving Taoism..
nhangen 13y ago
For a second I thought that was Rumi. Not the same, but just as good.
iliis 13y ago
I'm always amazed on how much wisdom is in such old texts. People from hundreds or even thousands of years ago were still ... just humans. The same as we are. They had the same problems and desires as we have. Even tough their world looked radically different their life didn't by far as much.
gbog 13y ago
I tend to prefer Waley's translation: Stretch a bow to the very full, And you will wish you had stopped in time; Temper a sword-edge to its very sharpest, And you will find it soon grows dull. When bronze and jade fill your hall. It can no longer be guarded. Wealth and place breed insolence. That brings ruin in its train. When your work is done, then withdraw! Such is Heaven's Way. Why? Because there is no "security" or "prisoner" in the original. And "serenity" is a far-fetched interpretation for "Heaven's Way", which is just the name of the daoist "Doctrine". http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?no=9&l=Daodejing http://wengu.tartarie.com/wg/wengu.php?no=9&l=Daodejing

TempleOS 13y ago

I was content in 1996 as an atheist with a job. God appeared. I freaked-out gave everything away lived homeless... nothing turned up, so started a company making 3D printing. 2003 CIA tortured me. I was disabled. I'm trained to make operating systems. 64-bit was new. I made an operating system, completing it -- mission from God. Now, in Hotel California. Waiting for them to see God. I fucken made God's official temple! CSC226 CSC326 Intel x86 asm CSE421 CSE422 CSE423 Motorola 6800 asm. I have been paid to program in VAX, 8051, x86, PIC, Atmel AVR, and 68000 assembly language. Operating systems and compilers is the only thing I know, 'sept rocket science a little. I took a course on operating systems, a course on compiler, a course on numeric methods, a course on graphics, a course on parallel supercomputing.

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Irregardless 13y ago

Oh, you're so awesome it hurts? Sorry to hear about your rich people problems. > the greatest motor race in the world: 24 hours of Le Mans The entire southern half of the U.S. begs to differ. Personally, I'd go with the Monaco Grand Prix if we're talking cars. If we're talking about "motor races" in general, it'd definitely be the Isle of Man TT. Hell, any one of the 18 yearly Moto GP races is probably better than Le Mans.

socrates1998 13y ago
> Oh, you're so awesome it hurts? Sorry to hear about your rich people problems. Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking. It's the humble brag. He talks about ambition like everyone thinks it's great. I don't know him personally, but if all of his projects get in the way of being a decent father, then it ain't worth it, in my opinion.
larrys 13y ago
What I like is that writing like dhh has done is a good example of how to brag without appearing to brag. You wrap the bragging around a larger point which acts like the red herring to distract from the bragging. So you get to mention your "fastest and most reliable car, the best-prepared team, and two of the fastest team mates in the business" appearing almost sheepish and incidental. Or here is another of the same, saying something like this while making a point about anything: "This experience has been a painful realization of everything that Alfie Kohn wrote about in Punished by Rewards and a reminder of the wisdom of Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s Flow." I have no clue who that is. But it sounds impressive which most things you have never heard of tend to do.
- sporkologist 13y ago
  That's how I read it. "I and my millions of dollars and world class team only came in second in an extremely competitive race, and I want everyone to know how that was a wake up call for me to not be so ambitious, because ambition can be poisonous. So here are some other philosophical writings about how to be happy with what you have and not be ambitious."
13y ago

ChuckMcM 13y ago

This really resonated with me, I realized at one point that I couldn't enjoy video games if I didn't win them. There was another article about the Startup bus and the toxicity of doing whatever it took to "win". I am much more appreciative of the Journey now than I was when I was younger.

michaelochurch 13y ago
I think it's hard to be appreciative of "the journey" in the startup world, or in work in general, when the reward disparities are so vast. I'm not talking about money, because that's actually fairly equalized. Great developers and bad ones at the same age/experience level and location will be within 20% of each other, in general, salary-wise. It's all the other stuff: esteem, autonomy, creative control, advancement. If you don't get that, and if you're also forced to subordinate to others, you lose motivation pretty quickly. Most people do VC-funded startups to buy their way out of having to work, but most of these companies have horrible cultures and make working a lot worse, which is counterproductive to the spirit of that goal. As a society, we should instead try to fix work, because we're a long way from being able to buy everyone out of it.
- ChuckMcM 13y ago
  "I think it's hard to be appreciative of "the journey" in the startup world, or in work in general, when the reward disparities are so vast." This statement captures the essential conflict that I have sought (and largely) resolved within myself. The term "reward disparities" is the cancer that eats away at appreciating the journey. In my case it was just code for "winning" or "not winning". You won if you got the highest reward, if you did not get the highest reward you did not win. Letting go of 'winning' or 'losing' removes the reward disparities as an influence on enjoying the journey. That was essentially what dhh wrote, and what I resonate with. I'm much happier having realized that I was letting those disparities destroy my appreciation of those around me and the opportunities I got to participate in.

bhewes 13y ago

This type of talk is much needed in the Tech world. Nice to see someone like David actual call the problem out. A problem as old as time. The Stoic view - "The perfect archer is concerned to take perfect aim, to do everything an archer can do to hit the target. Actually hitting the target is secondary. If any unpredictable gust of wind carries the arrow away and it misses the target, this does not reflect on his mastery of the art and hence does not really affect the archer." Miyamoto Musashi addresses the same issue in his "Book of Five Rings"

michaelochurch 13y ago

You should stick to Bridge, then.

scott_karana 13y ago
I don't quite understand your point, when he and his team took the second best possible position in the highest non-manufacturer class in one of the most famous, expensive, competitive, and prestigious races in the world. This is before even considering his influence because of Ruby on Rails. I think you missed the entire point of the article.
- michaelochurch 13y ago
  Card game reference.

mtdewcmu 13y ago

The danger of ambition is the theme of Macbeth, and other classics -- at least, that's what I've been told.

jmduke 13y ago

Courage can be poison. Determination can be poison. Curiosity, compassion, and patience, too -- all are good traits to have but will poison you from within if you start molding your entire life around them, without moderation. I like my eggs with Sriracha, but they're gonna be pretty bad eggs if I drown them in it.

yaddayadda 13y ago

Reminds me of this TED talk - http://www.ted.com/talks/devdutt_pattanaik.html http://www.ted.com/talks/devdutt_pattanaik.html (the difference between the East & the West)

jusben1369 13y ago

"Armed with the fastest and most reliable car, the best-prepared team, and two of the fastest team mates in the business" - If all these facts are indeed true then it does not seem too ambitious to expect to win the race. And one should be meaningfully disappointed at losing. I think there's some confusion here between over achieving and under achieving. If they were such underdogs (resources, experience, team) that a Top 25 finish seemed unlikely then I can understand how beating yourself up over 2nd would be too overly ambitious. This though seems like healthy "We kind of under achieved given what was possible going into this" Edit: Maybe not under achieved but understandably disappointed we didn't go one spot better.

spudlyo 13y ago

I love that DHH's unbridled awesomeness can also be a valuable lesson about life. He has much to teach us.

Yhippa 13y ago
"I am so awesome that when I don't get what I want it hurts because I'm used to getting what I want." I have tried in sports and in other areas of life to win and be awesome and it does sting when you come up just short. I've failed so much that it's easier for me to accept it now. What other choice do I have? Get debilitatingly bitter over things? That's not productive. The way he writes about it doesn't sound right to me. Did he write one big long humblebrag?
- sabat 13y ago
  Nearly everything this guy writes is a big long humblebrag.

bobsy 13y ago

While I understand the topic i don't like this example. The article is about a wealthy guy who can travel the world racing cars.. who then got pissy at coming second. The objective of a car race is to win.. especially if you have the best team and car. You should be somewhat dejected if you didn't. It is the nature of competitive events. This article has first world rich boy problems written all over it. A far better example of this topic would be a friend of mine. He started his own business. Worked day and night to get it running. He always said he would enjoy the spoils of his work. He didn't. He had more and more success but he got sucked into chasing ambition and achievement. He never eased up or stepped back. His life became chasing More. His wife left him. He continued to work excessive hours until he completely burnt out. It was only when he met someone else that he learnt to take a step back and appreciate and enjoy what he had created. If i enter a race in my Punto it is going to be fun. I have little expectation of winning, I am there to say I did it. DHH went to Le Man's to win. He didn't. This isn't poisonous ambition. This is missing the target.. much like this article. If he went to experience it, got caught up in winning and didn't enjoy any of it then perhaps he would have some sort of point.

_progger_ 13y ago
You might like his other post "Work for us 'Til You Drop": http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3389-your-lifersquos-work http://37signals.com/svn/posts/3389-your-lifersquos-work
lsc 13y ago
>This article has first world rich boy problems written all over it. I thought that was his point. He's super successful but still not happy, and it seems to me like this was part of him working through that. I mean, the whole tone of the article seemed, to me, to say "gee, it seems like I am pretty ungrateful, and this is a problem."
- KVFinn 13y ago
  >I thought that was his point. He's super successful but still not happy, and it seems to me like this was part of him working through that. I mean, the whole tone of the article seemed, to me, seemed to say "gee, it seems like I am pretty ungrateful, and this is a problem." I think you might be right but he certainly could have been more clear. Hard to differentiate "I'm so rich and successful I have problems you can't even understand. First World Problems." vs "What's wrong with my mentality that I can't enjoy coming in 2nd place in a race I've loved my whole life and only dreamed about competing in at a high level."

bitwize 13y ago

This reminds me of a parody[0] of an Oracle press release I once posted to Reddit. [0] http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ff8j3/java_on_sparc_t58_servers_is_fast/ca9oxx6 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ff8j3/java_on_...

pattisapu 13y ago

The White Whale swam before him as the monomaniac incarnation of all those malicious agencies which some deep men feel eating in them, till they are left living on with half a heart and half a lung. That intangible malignity which has been from the beginning; to whose dominion even the modern Christians ascribe one-half of the worlds; which the ancient Ophites of the east reverenced in their statue devil;—Ahab did not fall down and worship it like them; but deliriously transferring its idea to the abhorred white whale, he pitted himself, all mutilated, against it. All that most maddens and torments; all that stirs up the lees of things; all truth with malice in it; all that cracks the sinews and cakes the brain; all the subtle demonisms of life and thought; all evil, to crazy Ahab, were visibly personified, and made practically assailable in Moby Dick. He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it. —Melville, Moby-Dick

Zikes 13y ago

This reminds me of Stephen Fry's recent post about depression[1]. Many of the reactions to DHH's post seem to focus on his social and financial status (e.g. "first world rich boy problems"), as if to say his success means he has no right to feel any negative emotions. This is something that troubled Stephen deeply, and was likely a significant barrier to his seeking help. It may be difficult for us to relate to his particular situation, but if we look for the lesson he's trying to teach and apply it to our own lives, even superficially, we may learn something of value. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5933557 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5933557

comrade_ogilvy 13y ago
That is a good point. Why is a successful person with resources not allowed to openly admit they are in need of personal growth? Is such an admission more legitimate from the mouth of a less successful person?

devmvc 13y ago

Have you ever heard of the self-advertising agency of 37 signals? So gorgeous, so great, so smart and so on and on this David boy. Come on guys for real ? Why can't I zoom in the Blog from an Ipad? Cheers

patrickaljord 13y ago

> That’s a monumental achievement by almost any standards, yet also one of the least enjoyable experiences I’ve had driving a race car — all because of ambition. I sincerly thought he was going to talk about how the fact that someone died in a car crash two days ago at Le Mans ruined the party. Then I realized he was talking about his own ambition. Not saying he's selfish because of that though, it's pretty human to care first about your own life. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/motor/2013/06/22/allan-simonsen-crash-24-hours-of-le-mans/2448831/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/motor/2013/06/22/allan-...

subsystem 13y ago

Being "good" at loosing takes training. It's one of the things you learn if you play sports (especially team sports) long enough.

scopendo 13y ago

Frankly, I don't care whether David's post is this or that. What I care about is the point - optimise your life for happiness and recognise that happiness is in the doing, in the living, not the outcome.

stevenkovar 13y ago

"But what is happiness? It's a moment before you need more happiness." [1] DHH's point seems to be falling on deaf ears for a large portion of the audience out of resentment for his financial status rather than embraced for exemplifying the law of diminishing returns at the emotional level. This post is about the realization that an imbalanced life can rob from you the satisfaction of living. A singular focus can propel a person or team, but each incremental improvement comes at a higher cost than the last. Becoming the best is more exhaustive emotionally than it is financially; there is a certain solitude at the top. Rapid growth is chaotic—harder to manage, especially emotionally. I've noticed a trend of deeply emotional, saddening stories of this ambition overload and solitude DHH talks about, right here on HN. Within our community it's easy to compare ourselves to our peers. Someone we know had their made-it-big moment, but they obviously just got lucky, or we're better than them. It's easy to seek validation through "success" or some external ideal, fueled by ambition and blinded by our own self-interest. Slow down. Find a mentor who's been there. Learn to enjoy the process. Look to deliver happiness to those around you, and receive it graciously when they give it back. Don't seek happiness for yourself; create it for someone else. [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTJrNHdzm0k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTJrNHdzm0k

gbog 13y ago

"Rightfully so, ambition is universally revered." Not true. The use of "universally" should be limited to a few universal truth and for jokes about people thinking their limited scope is the universe. Examples of probable universal truths (other than mathematic or physic laws): - Mother universally smile to their infants. (Few exceptions) - Incest taboo is near-universal. - Fear of the unknown is almost universal. Wrongs: - Men universally prefer big waist and boobs. - Religion is universal. - Everyone loves pets/sport/music. And no, the quote above is not a figure de style, it is just poorly thought writing.

nnq 13y ago

> Happiness doesn’t lie in the fulfillment of the expected. Neither in all the trinkets and trophies of the world. It’s in enjoying the immersion of the process, not the final outcome. Thumbs up for this, but let me add that it can lie in the fulfillment of the unexpected, the happiness of discovery and exploration, and of ending up creating things that are very different from what you set up to create in the first place. This kind of "exploratory happiness" is my drug of choice ;)

shin_lao 13y ago

It's the dose that makes the poison.

Helpful_Bunny 13y ago

For mine own good All causes shall give way. I am in blood Stepp'd in so far that, should I wade no more, Returning were as tedious as go o'er. Ambition is no bad thing, as long as it's tempered. I think a problem with this piece is that he identified his issue, but never asked the killer question: If he (and his team) had been both ambitious and thoroughly enjoying the entire experience, would they have won? There's much to be said about "being in the zone", and it feels from his writing that his ambition dulled this side for him. I'd be interested to hear what the experiences of the 1st and 3rd placed teams were, in comparison. Of course, this is his leisure, so the question is doubly important: if you're in a business you can rationalize not enjoying the experience of making your $500 million victory whilst enjoying the outcome. In leisure, the entire point is enjoying the whole thing.