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Mocl – a Common Lisp implementation for mobile platforms
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- avodonosov 13y agointeresting
- st3fan 13y agoSounds like a cool project. But really, no documentation, no sample code, not even a whitepaper? Just a Buy Now button? It probably isn't, but it sounds like a scam. Better put out some actual code to show that this is for real.
- gryphon65 13y agoAgreed. I'd be really interested in a good common lisp for mobile development but I need more to go on than a page with a buy button.
- avodonosov 13y agoIt has been released 30 minutes ago, so web page is a work in progress.
- wukix 13y agoHey, mocl creator here. I apologize for the minimal website. We are building it out as quickly as we can. Bit hectic with a fixed release date we were trying to meet (and did meet). It is real, though. I gave a talk about it at ECLM 2013 http://weitz.de/eclm2013/ http://weitz.de/eclm2013/.
- dubcanada 13y agoThen why even release it? You're releasing a new "coding method" for mobile platforms with no documentation, no sample code, no example applications, no benchmark backups. Nobody is going to hand over $200 without at least some of those items listed above. So it just seems a bit strange to even want to release it. I'm just saying you should slow down a little bit, take a look at http://www.rubymotion.com/ http://www.rubymotion.com/ for example. It's the same sort of thing, Ruby for iOS. They provide both examples, publicly available documentation, they even have a way to try it out yourself and see what it looks like.
- wukix 13y agoFor what it's worth I just put up some code so you can see better how it works.
- mark_l_watson 13y agoSo, you write the UI code in Java for Android and Objective-C for iOS, then there is some build process for both platforms? This seems a little awkward. A sample project setup to build for both platforms would be useful to see. For some types of applications, the native UI boilerplate would probably be minimal, but for apps with complex UIs, this might add a lot of dev overhead. Don't get me wrong though, this looks cool!!
- pyvpx 13y agocongrats on reaching your deadline, but now you've shot yourself in the foot in another way by tarnishing the..."brand", for want of a better term. you can pat yourself on the back for hitting your target date without having to prematurely publicly release the whole thing.
- pavelludiq 13y agoA month ago mocl was considered vaporware by many. Not releasing it was damaging their "brand".
- wslh 13y agoA little bit expensive and with no trial (no, I don't want to buy something to return it later).
- pavelludiq 13y agoIt's actually cheap for a production ready(if it is) commercial cl implementation, but I agree, a trial version is essential.
- wslh 13y agoThe same applies to a lot of software. If you just speed up a few hours then the ROI is very high. BUT from the commercial perspective you must follow some "commercial software standards". You can even lose customers because the commercial proposal is far from the standard and "against" the customer. This comment was downvoted without a reply
- tbirdz 13y agoHowever, note that most commercial lisp implementations, such as LispWorks, Allegro CL each have a free (gratis, not libre), albeit limited, personal/noncommercial edition as well as evaluation and trial licenses for their other versions.
- wukix 13y agomocl creator here. Trial version will be coming in the weeks ahead. Didn't have time to put it together yet. Sorry about that. We do accept returns though.
- mark_l_watson 13y agoI am not sure that a trial version is really necessary if you provide several solid complete examples (source, build setup for both platforms) and pre-built apps for the demos that we could try on our Android and iOS devices.
- alexscheelmeyer 13y agoThis is exactly what I am looking for and I would probably buy it if I had some reassurance that it would actually work. Where is the docs? The sample code? Proof of concept apps that can be downloaded from app stores? Fine print for what is allowed in the different licenses?
- wukix 13y agoDocumentation, and a little bit of sample code is included in the download. The license agreement is viewable at http://wukix.com/mocl-license-agreement http://wukix.com/mocl-license-agreement.
- alexscheelmeyer 13y agoWith fine print I meant answer to questions like "what do I get in a commercial license that I do not get in a personal license?" as it is written it could mean that with a personal license you are not allowed to earn money from apps, or it could mean that it would only cover a single developer (then how many developers do I get for the commercial license?) Also by actually reading that license it seems to contradict what you promise elsewhere, it says: "All fees shall be non-refundable".
- wukix 13y agoPersonal just means you are buying it with your own funds and not being reimbursed by a company. You are free to make paid apps with it. I'll work on language to clarify. Thanks for pointing out the contradiction there. We may be going above and beyond what is required of us by the license, in the case of refunds. But we'll still do so.
- cscurmudgeon 13y agoCan you guys provide something to look at before I pay? A free but limited version like Lispworks will be ideal and may increase your numbers.
- clubhi 13y agoI'm going to assume a few things here... - No one has ever used this. - It is filled with bugs and has no full time developers supporting it. - It is extremely limited. - The benchmarks are completely false. I'd buy something like this if it didn't look like a good rich scheme.
- regularfry 13y agoSo is this based on an existing CL implementation, or a totally greenfield project?
- espadrine 13y agoIt compiles to C; there is no JIT/bytecode/interpreter. It may be created from scratch. http://wukix.com/dist/mocl_eclm2013.pdf http://wukix.com/dist/mocl_eclm2013.pdf
- yakov 13y agoFrom language implementer perspective your ECLM slides are lame. Is this ECL re-packaged you charge > $ 200 for without even giving a trial whatever? :-)
- muhuk 13y agoClojure on Android: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NptqU3bqZE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NptqU3bqZE
- octopus 13y agoYou do realize that Clojure is not Common Lisp ? That being said, the linked video is from 2011 (published in 2013, but from 2011).
- flyingbeaver 13y agocould you only put a gist with the code of a hello world application ? Like AppDelegate and a label with hello world in it ?
- tomjen3 13y agoAt 200 bucks a license there isn't going to be more than a couple people who are ready to answer stack overflow questions about this, there isn't going to be a good plugin to most IDEs, the tooling support is going to be poor in general and there is going to be libraries for approximately nothing (yes I know, it takes a lot less time to write them in Lisp, but it still means you need to dive into the Oauth spec to work with Twitter, whereas I can just download a library for Java that works). I say this as a huge fan of Lisp and there was a time where it made sense to buy a commercial compiler - that time has passed, because when you buy a compiler and a new language you are also buying into an ecosystem, and the more people that are in that ecosystem the better for you. I can see maybe using Lisp to do some special parts of the program, but even then there is Chicken Scheme which is free and already have a bunch of eggs (extensions), oh and it compiles to C too.
- wukix 13y ago"there is going to be libraries for approximately nothing" You do realize this runs Common Lisp, right? There are plenty of Common Lisp libraries.
- tomjen3 13y agoMaybe. CL has a bunch of different implementations that are slightly incompatible and some of the libraries (or their dependencies) have to be chased down on obscure FTP sites that haven't been updated in a long time. Don't get me wrong, as a language is it the best that I know of. As an environment, it is not.
- pavelludiq 13y agothe eclim talk mentions that many CL libraries work with it so maybe https://github.com/fons/cl-twitter https://github.com/fons/cl-twitter or https://github.com/skypher/cl-oauth https://github.com/skypher/cl-oauth will work? Anyway, lispworks seems to be doing fine selling their lisp, so maybe it isn't hopeless for wukix :)
- reeses 13y ago
- mark_l_watson 13y agoLooks very interesting! Some blog articles showing development of sample applications would also be nice :-)
- rcb 13y agoI'm very happy about mocl's release. Great work, and congratulations!
- contingencies 13y agoSeems to me like LISP might defend itself as a mobile language through relative ease of GPU integration, given the parallelization possible through OpenCL/CUDA, the difficulties of using them with traditional languages, the mobile platforms' challenge of electrical power consumption, and the limits of CPU-based processing.
- jbp 13y agoIs this same as Gambit-c or Chicken scheme, but for CL?
- octopus 13y agoIf what you ask is if mocl compiles to C first (like Chicken and Gambit), than yes. It is the same.
- paines 13y agoNice, and congrats to the wukix Team for their effort. However, will Apple accept those apps in it's store? There was this guy who wrote a game in Gambit Scheme (iirc) and was rejected back then. This seems to be the same process here (generate C code from Lisp and glue it toether with GUI code), just with CL.
- rsanders 13y agoApple no longer cares what language you use, as long as new code isn't downloaded to distributed apps after installation. So it's okay to use CL as long as there is no facility for interpretation of CL downloaded from the net.
- octopus 13y agoI think Apple will accept anything compiled with mocl. A similar project is RubyMotion (for Ruby obviously) and it seems to have no problem with Apple.