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Ill go a step further. Snowmen is really a bellwether event created by this administration to either provide a redemption story for the Obama administration, sh

Ill go a step further. Snowmen is really a bellwether event created by this administration to either provide a redemption story for the Obama administration, should the public object too strongly-- or to test if surveillance can be taken much farther (if the public remains apathetic)

synctext 13y ago
> Snowden is really a bellwether event. Why would Obama sanction deeply-embarrassing revelations and expose the staggering depth of warrantless spying?
- pmichaud 13y ago
  Maybe Obama is deeply opposed to the whole thing himself, but it's so entrenched he couldn't really do anything about it. Think of how he gets blocked routinely in the public view and imagine what cut throat stuff must be going on behind the scenes. So maybe this is a way to do an end run around whoever is keeping these shenanigans in place. This is almost certainly not the case, but that's the answer that came to mind when you asked the question.
  - d23 13y ago
    At this point, it's the only way I would still be able to justify not being disappointed in him. My hope is that given the obstructionism he's experienced over the last four years, he's trying a bit of jujitsu to use his political enemies' weight against themselves. His base complained that he wasn't doing anything on DADT (i.e. an executive order, which could be overturned under a republican administration) and he had to basically keep quiet until he got the permanent repeal behind the scenes. That being said, I'd be surprised if that were the case here. But a man can hope.
  - psutor 13y ago
    This thought crossed my mind as well after I spent some time thinking how a president could still get things done with how little power they actually have vs. entrenched entities. I still think it is extraordinarily unlikely though.
  - sasidharm 13y ago
    The appointment of Eric Holder as the head of DOJ could be the defining moment of Obama's presidency. Everything Eric Holder is involved in is turning into a huge pile of shit.
arcadeparade 13y ago
He is a bellwether even whether he was created or not.
iandanforth 13y ago
I hope at least the movie version ends this way, it would be a great twist. The leaker walks into the oval office and shakes the hand of the president, who smiles, and fade to black.
- bobwaycott 13y ago
  To make it even more fun, as it fades, close up on the President handing the leaker his plane ticket to Hong Kong.
joe_the_user 13y ago
The only thing I might agree with is that this may be a bellwether event. It's not useful scrounging up, uh, conspiracy theories for how it happened unless there is evidence. The only argument you're invoking is abduction - that no other approach fits the facts. But the thing about the NSA is the level of spying and power that's demonstrated gives a strong indication they just don't have much reason to care what the public thinks. The average NSA bureaucrat isn't worried about the public at all but what argument their boss or colleague will use against them. And letting out information goes so hard against the default impulse that letting information out intentionally seems way unlikely, even as part of a clever master plan. I mean, if we're wandering to wild speculation land, the NSA has dozens of potential master plans. One that releases information and makes them look bad wouldn't do well in the "master-plan competition" - held yearly at Area 51!
- awakeasleep 13y ago
  Yes, my post was an intellectual exercise ignoring the fact that public opinion plays little to no role in defense politics, especially not for a president nearing the end of his second term.

synctext 13y ago

> Snowden is really a bellwether event. Why would Obama sanction deeply-embarrassing revelations and expose the staggering depth of warrantless spying?

pmichaud 13y ago
Maybe Obama is deeply opposed to the whole thing himself, but it's so entrenched he couldn't really do anything about it. Think of how he gets blocked routinely in the public view and imagine what cut throat stuff must be going on behind the scenes. So maybe this is a way to do an end run around whoever is keeping these shenanigans in place. This is almost certainly not the case, but that's the answer that came to mind when you asked the question.
- d23 13y ago
  At this point, it's the only way I would still be able to justify not being disappointed in him. My hope is that given the obstructionism he's experienced over the last four years, he's trying a bit of jujitsu to use his political enemies' weight against themselves. His base complained that he wasn't doing anything on DADT (i.e. an executive order, which could be overturned under a republican administration) and he had to basically keep quiet until he got the permanent repeal behind the scenes. That being said, I'd be surprised if that were the case here. But a man can hope.
- psutor 13y ago
  This thought crossed my mind as well after I spent some time thinking how a president could still get things done with how little power they actually have vs. entrenched entities. I still think it is extraordinarily unlikely though.
- sasidharm 13y ago
  The appointment of Eric Holder as the head of DOJ could be the defining moment of Obama's presidency. Everything Eric Holder is involved in is turning into a huge pile of shit.

arcadeparade 13y ago

He is a bellwether even whether he was created or not.

iandanforth 13y ago

I hope at least the movie version ends this way, it would be a great twist. The leaker walks into the oval office and shakes the hand of the president, who smiles, and fade to black.

bobwaycott 13y ago
To make it even more fun, as it fades, close up on the President handing the leaker his plane ticket to Hong Kong.

joe_the_user 13y ago

The only thing I might agree with is that this may be a bellwether event. It's not useful scrounging up, uh, conspiracy theories for how it happened unless there is evidence. The only argument you're invoking is abduction - that no other approach fits the facts. But the thing about the NSA is the level of spying and power that's demonstrated gives a strong indication they just don't have much reason to care what the public thinks. The average NSA bureaucrat isn't worried about the public at all but what argument their boss or colleague will use against them. And letting out information goes so hard against the default impulse that letting information out intentionally seems way unlikely, even as part of a clever master plan. I mean, if we're wandering to wild speculation land, the NSA has dozens of potential master plans. One that releases information and makes them look bad wouldn't do well in the "master-plan competition" - held yearly at Area 51!

awakeasleep 13y ago
Yes, my post was an intellectual exercise ignoring the fact that public opinion plays little to no role in defense politics, especially not for a president nearing the end of his second term.