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Official statement from WikiLeaks regarding Edward Snowden's exit from Hong Kong
- kator 13y agoLooks like he walked right through a legal loop hole (for now).
- jnbiche 13y agoThere are no legal niceties here. This is about raw military power (Russia's) and spheres of influence (again, Russia's).
- Nrsolis 13y agoWhat's really sad is that this guy is going to learn really fast that he's now in a sphere where the rules simply don't apply. He's put himself in play and he's going to learn very quickly that he has few friends where a nation considers the information in his brain essential to their national security. http://www.amazon.com/The-Flight-Falcon-Manhunt-Americas/dp/1585747718 http://www.amazon.com/The-Flight-Falcon-Manhunt-Americas/dp/... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falcon_and_the_Snowman http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falcon_and_the_Snowman
- nraynaud 13y agoYeah, as seen from far away, Latin America is just CIA's backyard, and as far as I know they have no restrain there.
- Nrsolis 13y agoYou took the words right out of my mouth. Remember that the Russians killed Litvinenko in the middle of Mayfair, London, UK. The Israelis killed Mahmoud Hamshari in Paris. Remember that these were all nuclear nations. I'll leave the research of any possible US involvements as an exercise to the reader.
- vinceguidry 13y agoThese sort of tricks are precisely why Snowden went public.
- Nrsolis 13y agoLitvinenko was pretty public IIRC. Still dead. Still radioactive.
- vinceguidry 13y agoNobody said it was 100% effective.
- vidarh 13y agoThey may show no restraint, but there's also a number of these countries that are experienced at countering the CIA after decades of interference and that now have governments that are either openly anti-US or extremely wary of US interference.
- llamataboot 13y agoBut the information isn't just in his head. And revenge-killing might make more information available through some dead man's switch, especially now that wikileaks is involved
- jmcgough 13y agoI feel like HK was looking for a reason to wash their hands of this, since it would have been a political mess with no real upsides.
- e3pi 13y ago"Over the jungle, the quiet jungle, the drone hunts tonight ...[365/24/7 refrain]... Over the ice field, the empty ice field, the raptor hunts tonight ...[365/24/7 refrain]... (sung to The Lion Sleeps Tonight) If true, this exit is good news! I have worried about his safety for the past two weeks. ES needs a redoubtable safe-house enclave/bunker like a free Assange to repeatedly surgically strike while the iron is hot. Exposing heinous criminal abuse of state entrusted power, founded on self-witnessed righteous indignation- leveraged by gigahertz worldwide public networks- makes for a seriously formidable anti-Borg threat. I hope Assange's crack team are good chess players to be constantly vigilant, and terra-sotto terrified how dangerous this is. Endlessly run gold/blue team attack game/simulations, have seasoned and wounded trade-crafters as loyal and encrazed armed sentinels, handling also, a hyper-alert pack of google-glass augmented Scottish Border Collies:
- synctext 13y agoWhy is this trip of Snowden made into a media event? The Aeroflot flight number was public! Is this to counter a secret rendition attempt? Did we wake-up in a world with 007 stuff happening to real computer nerds, not just high-paid actors?
- alan_cx 13y agoPublicity is, or can be, protection.
- walid 13y agoRight on!
- quackerhacker 13y agoIn his situation, this is a well calculated decision to keep his location public. Security through obscurity won't benefit much here.
- e3pi 13y ago>The Aeroflot flight number was public url?
- spdy 13y agoHow does diplomatic immunity work if you are in the entourage of an diplomat?
- Andrew_Quentin 13y agoI would think the plane is safe and perhaps the plane could be considered as territory of the nation of the diplomat therefore the diplomat could offer him asylum on the plane if need be, but I may be wrong about the latter.
- jpatokal 13y agoNope: diplomatic immunity extends only to diplomats and their immediate families. As Snowden is neither, and cannot be nominated as one without the host country's approval, there's nothing stopping Russia or Cuba from detaining Snowden if they wanted to, no matter how many Elbonian diplomats he's travelling with. (Source: I used to have diplomatic immunity.)
- konstruktor 13y agoYour personal experience is not a source, keep your reddit speak where it belongs.
- Andrew_Quentin 13y agoI was under the impression that they were flying on a privately owned plane. That does not seem to be the case, but it may be on their next leg of the journey. I do not have direct knowledge, but I would think that if the plane is of the diplomat, then the whole plane could be considered to be territory of the nation of the diplomat, therefore the diplomat could offer him asylum while on the plane. If I wasn't clear, I was not speaking about offering him diplomatic immunity, but rather the plane being considered as territory of the nation of the diplomat.
- Nrsolis 13y agoHey, remember when a US warship shot down an Iranian Civilian Airliner? Ooopsie! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
- jpatokal 13y agoHmm. Either they're calling Venezuela a "democratic nation", which seems a bit of a stretch, or Snowden's actually heading somewhere other than the media is reporting. I'm hoping for option B.
- octo_t 13y agoVenezuela is one of the most democratic countries in the world? All of their last elections have been externally ratified as being fair: http://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/hugo-chavez-030513.html http://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/hugo-chavez-030513.html http://www.cartercenter.org/countries/venezuela-peace-elections.html http://www.cartercenter.org/countries/venezuela-peace-electi...
- jpatokal 13y agoAre you serious? Chavez spent his entire period in office warping the machinery of the state in his favor, and his successor is refusing to investigate some pretty serious allegations of fraud for the last one. http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21579458-real-questions-about-maduros-victory-have-not-been-answered-beside-point http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21579458-real-questio...
- justsee 13y ago"Chávez himself read my findings on potential elections theft – to his nation on his TV show – and then he moved swiftly, establishing an election system that Jimmy Carter, who has headed vote observer teams in 92 nations, called, 'an election process that is the best in the world'. Here's how it works: every Venezuelan voter gets TWO ballots. One is electronic, the second is a paper print-out of the touch-screen ballot, which the voter reviews, authorises, then places in a locked ballot-box. An astounding 54 percent of the boxes are chosen at random to open and check against the computer tally. It's as close to a bulletproof count as you can get." [1] In the face of significant US interference Venezuala could have gone extremely dictatorial, but it seems they went the other way and implemented a more secure voting process than in many other countries where electronic voting is used. [1] http://www.gregpalast.com/did-chavez-pick-steal-the-election-in-venezuela/ http://www.gregpalast.com/did-chavez-pick-steal-the-election...
- darxius 13y agoI wonder if this will see Wikileaks become a sort of worldwide whistleblower protection agency. Seeing as most countries don't exactly have the best whistleblower protection programs.
- Nrsolis 13y agoExactly how would this work? WikiArmy?
- Nursie 13y agoSure. A modern underground railroad if thats what it takes.
- gexla 13y agoThis seems like a much better move. If I wanted to disappear, I would much rather take my chances in rural areas where people are less likely to be watching the news rather than a city which has my picture on banners and screens everywhere. All I would need is the middle ground between remote and having a functional internet connection. Then I would just setup a cottage, create a business profile and financial accounts in my partner's name (which would likely be my girlfriend, probably on a fast track to marriage, who I recently met in my new home in South America) and do whatever freelance work I would need to get by (I'm sure Snowden could find quite a bit of work with his tech skills.) I'm not sure I would want for WikiLeaks to be announcing my moves, but this is probably something you can't escape, so might as well take the help from one of the players who are reporting the story. ETA: Or maybe I spoke too soon. I'm not sure anyone really knows where he is going.
- jonnymkramer 13y agoHe doesn't want to have to disappear, to never see his friends or family again. He is going to a country which will hopefully allow him to live openly.
- rdouble 13y agoRural communities aren't great places to hide because everyone is nosey and tend to be suspicious about recent arrivals. Huge cities are easier to disappear into anonymity. That said, Moscow and Caracas aren't exactly rural hamlets.
- pvnick 13y agoThis is so exciting. Makes Tom Clancy novels seem dull and predictable.
- dopamean 13y agoI cant wait for the movie!
- enraged_camel 13y agoHaha, now that I think about it, there will definitely be a movie about this in 5-10 years. The question is how it will actually portray Snowden...
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- glurgh 13y agoI'm actually imagining it more like running with a constant background - not the Benny Hill music but Harry Belafonte's number 'Matilda' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C-DShN82mc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C-DShN82mc "Matilda, she take me secrets and run Venezuela. "
- reaganing 13y agoSo cute how Wikileaks is always trying to insert themselves into this story.
- nwh 13y agoIf they're supporting him, escorting him, and providing legal help, I'd say they're probably entitled to.
- outside1234 13y agoUnlike most of us just commenting on the story, they are doing something, and I applaud them for it.
- t0dd 13y agoDid you even read their statement? They're the ones trying to provide him safe passage to a place of refuge. Remind me again, as its a common refrain, how shamelessly self-promoting WikiLeaks is? To my knowledge, everyone involved has made great personal sacrifices (basically given up their lives) to expose the truth to an indifferent public. Bradley Manning has been locked away for years, denied almost all human interaction. Julian Assange is holed up in an embassy. Snowden is the most wanted man on the planet. Do such people really deserve your derision?
- reaganing 13y agoThey do when they knowingly break the laws and run away from the consequences like Snowden and Assange have (Assange's even more appalling given the rape allegations he also ran away from). Manning, at least, didn't do that. I stand corrected about Wikileaks role in this particular aspect of the story as they do seem to actually be helping him elude justice. But they seemed to have nothing to do with his actual leaks, yet I've seen multiple 'statements' from them on the matter that seemed to only serve as a way to remind people of their existence. At least now they have an actual reason, I guess.
- rdouble 13y agoAt this point, if Wikileaks doesn't publish the docs Snowden has, this whole incident is a farce.
- deleted 13y ago[deleted]
- babesh 13y agoImagine the financial power in the data the government has and doesn't want to reveal. Like who is buying and selling what stocks. That information is gold for data mining.
- dllthomas 13y agoAnd remember, insider trading basically doesn't apply to Congress...
- nraynaud 13y ago"Mr Snowden requested that WikiLeaks use its legal expertise and experience to secure his safety." They tried 2 times before, Manning is in jail, Assange is living in an embassy. Only losers quit. edit: I see that Garzon is on board, he's the one who tried to judge Pinochet, one of the CIA's dictator. His job ended when he tried to bring trials for acts of the spanish dictature.
- dawkins 13y agoHis job ended because he knew he didn't have jurisdiction to start this trials but he proceeded anyway and because he asked for money to a banker who was judging at the time (the infamous "dear Emilio" letter)
- sublimit 13y agoSuddenly the front page is Snowden Snowden Snowden. Hacker News is even worse than Reddit at latching to news-of-the-minute.
- trevelyan 13y agoThe unraveling of the American Republic is news of the century. Additionally, in terms of the implications of this leak for geopolitics and Internet business/security, this is easily the biggest and most important story in international affairs since 2001.
- anigbrowl 13y agoThe unraveling of the American Republic Hyperbole much?
- xtracto 13y agoBut still not hacker news. This type of news was part of the doom of Slashdot. Sure, political news are fine, but a lot of us do not come to Hacker News for political news... we are aware of Reddit, Slashdot and news.google.com
- samstave 13y agoThis whole situation is of extreme importance though, especially to the long term future of pretty much all technology companies. I am actually extraordinarily happy that this has been all over HN and especially that there has been some amazing dialogue from HNers on this.
- Kiro 13y ago"What is being done to Mr Snowden and to Mr Julian Assange - for making or facilitating disclosures in the public interest - is an assault against the people." What exactly is being "done" to Julian Assange? The only reason he's stuck in the embassy is because of rape accusations.
- arcadeparade 13y agoActually he said he would go to Sweden if they promised not to extradite him to the USA and they refused.
- gsnedders 13y ago…because the Swedish government can make no such promise, as extradition is a matter for the judiciary, and the judiciary cannot hear the case until they have an extradition request in hand. Having a strong separation between government and judiciary is good. He never had any guarantee from the UK that he would not be extradited, and yet was happy to spend time there.
- vidarh 13y ago> …because the Swedish government can make no such promise, as extradition is a matter for the judiciary This is a half truth. The Swedish government can overrule the judiciary to prevent extradition, and have on multiple occasions. They government have chosen not to offer such guarantees. Though frankly, a bigger concern is the prosecutors insistence on not questioning him in the UK and her claim she somehow can't, despite evidence to the contrary (Swedish police regularly questions suspects outside of Sweden) > He never had any guarantee from the UK that he would not be extradited, and yet was happy to spend time there. He was happy to spend time here because unlike Sweden, the UK has not been quite as willing to illegally hand people over to the CIA for rendition flights (Sweden has admitted to multiple instances), and has a legal system that at least has a little bit of a spine in extradition cases on occasion.
- mongol 13y ago
- drawkbox 13y agoPlaying devil's advocate here, and watched a bunch of spy movies... What if Snowden is still a CIA agent (he was a CIA agent for years before NSA) and this is actually a snowjob/whitewash by the government to deflect attention or essentially control the message about news they knew would be released (diffusing that/controlling that message) and black-ops about China, Russia, Cuba + Venezuela how they treat/process possible 'traitors' or spies? I hope that is not the case and he is sincere, it would be great if the US could just pardon him and address our Constitutional issues. But if they pardon him doesn't the above seem like an outside possibility? Or am I reading too much Tom Clancy and watching too many spy movies? It does seem most whistleblowers are swept under the rug but here you have one that is garnering lots of news and attracting lots of attention across multiple weeks/weekends to things that were previously labeled 'conspiracy' or only seen in movies (yet have been in the news quietly before, since 9/11). Now it is international news everywhere. He is almost the perfect leaker, making more waves than all combined.
- awakeasleep 13y agoIll go a step further. Snowmen is really a bellwether event created by this administration to either provide a redemption story for the Obama administration, should the public object too strongly-- or to test if surveillance can be taken much farther (if the public remains apathetic)
- synctext 13y ago> Snowden is really a bellwether event. Why would Obama sanction deeply-embarrassing revelations and expose the staggering depth of warrantless spying?
- pmichaud 13y agoMaybe Obama is deeply opposed to the whole thing himself, but it's so entrenched he couldn't really do anything about it. Think of how he gets blocked routinely in the public view and imagine what cut throat stuff must be going on behind the scenes. So maybe this is a way to do an end run around whoever is keeping these shenanigans in place. This is almost certainly not the case, but that's the answer that came to mind when you asked the question.
- outside1234 13y agoVenezuela? Oh no. I feel like this is going to end badly for Snowden. Its hard to imagine him not getting scooped up in a black helicopter now.
- at-fates-hands 13y ago"being escorted by diplomats and legal advisors from WikiLeaks." Since when did WikiLEaks have diplomats on its payroll??
- X-Istence 13y agoThey don't have to be on the pay roll to still believe that Wikileaks is providing a greater resource to the world...
- tassl 13y agoI find it (a bit) ironic that the WikiLeaks lawyer that is giving legal advice to Snowden is Baltasar Garzon, who was suspended for improper eavesdropping. *As a clarification, this suspension was mostly political, being Spain one of the most corrupt countries in Europe and with a dark and terrible past due the dictatorship that ended 37 years ago. Garzon tried to investigate the crimes committed by Franco (related to the right wind in Spain) and a few years later he was judging a corruption case (called Gürtel), which lead to his suspension.
- zissou 13y agoFun fact about Aeroflot: The slogan for Aeroflot back in the days of the USSR was "You Have Made The Right Choice", which is ironic since Aeroflot was the only airline in the Soviet Union.