5 ms·

I just loved that article a few days back about how brilliant he was for picking HK.

lignuist 13y ago
At least it was possible for him to leave.
adventured 13y ago
It was brilliant. Hong Kong didn't immediately jump when the US Government said to jump. It enabled Snowden to get away. So let's take score. US military has over a hundred bases globally. The CIA operates in over a hundred countries. The US intelligence budget is over $80 billion. The NSA can 'see' practically everything. And there goes Snowden, escaping on a common commercial flight out of Hong Kong. If anybody looks stupid, it's clearly the US Government.
- rdouble 13y ago
  Or maybe the USG doesn't really think he's all that important.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    Maybe, but then their posturing still makes them look stupid.
  - wavefunction 13y ago
    Maybe. Maybe they're just playing coy.
  - vinceguidry 13y ago
    From watching CNN, the tone I get from the government is that they mainly want him so they can send a message to other potential leakers that this sort of behavior won't be tolerated. Is he important enough to move heaven and earth for? I didn't get that. The Obama administration needs to tread very carefully here, which is why, so long as Snowden doesn't make a stupid mistake, which it looks like he won't, he'll be able to squirrel himself away in Latin America. Obama, as head of state, needs to at least make the appearance he's protecting the power and prestige of the government. But he also needs to avoid looking like the terroristic assholes we're at war with. It's a very thin line, and I'm actually a little impressed with how he's handling this.
- danenania 13y ago
  HK is also one of the few places in the world that both offered a reasonable chance of not turning him over and didn't arouse too much suspicion when he requested time off. I can't imagine the NSA looks too kindly on non-business trips to Caracas, Moscow, or Havana. Even Iceland could have turned some heads given its recent streak of standing up for itself. He has roundly ruined HK for future whistleblowers though!
  - avar 13y ago
    His answer here would seem to suggest that he didn't request time off: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower#block-51bf2793e4b05a46aeeb319a http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-n...
- nayefc 13y ago
  > If anybody looks stupid, it's clearly the US Government. Not really. What can they really do? Usually, they'd bully countries into submission. Hong Kong proved it does not bow down to the US. They also cannot really kidnap him or anything like that. It's way too public at this point, and as "terrible" the CIA sometimes is, they're not a bunch of murdering assholes like the Mossad.
  - droithomme 13y ago
    You are correct the Mossad assassinates people routinely. However, this is a poorly chosen rhetorical attack in defense of the CIA since the US currently is engaging in a global assassination war using drones and other means which has murdered far far more people than the Mossad ever has, and far more of those people are completely innocent of any wrongdoing. Mossad at least picks specific and known enemy leaders and tends to assassinate only them up close and personal. It is true there is collateral damage, but the collateral killings caused by the US assassinations are much greater. The CIA is deeply involved in selecting targets and running the assassination programs, just as it was involved in horrific torture, abuse and war crimes committed against thousands of people in recent years. The CIA is a powerful and dangerous criminal organization which routinely engages in crimes against humanity. There is absolutely no defense possible for the crimes committed by the CIA. http://www.livingunderdrones.org/ http://www.livingunderdrones.org/ http://humanrightsclinic.law.stanford.edu/project/living-under-drones/ http://humanrightsclinic.law.stanford.edu/project/living-und... The argument that "at least the CIA doesn't assassinate" like some other country that has nothing to do with Snowden's case makes no sense. It's simply not true that the CIA doesn't assassinate as much as the Mossad. The CIA assassinates far more, and far more indiscriminately. The CIA assassinates by giving american kids videogame-like control over flying robotic drones and having them assassinate anyone who they think looks suspicious while eating candy and drinking soda safe in an air conditioned room thousands of miles from where the robot planes are flying patrols. When they see someone they feel like shooting they shoot them and it is assumed that person is a "militant" because they said so. To them it is a fun videogame about shooting what they call "ragheads", and other derisive terms even worse. They keep track of their kill counts as a competition. At no point do they take responsibility for their actions, consider their targets human beings, seek justice, risk their own lives, or display any intelligence or skill. They are just cowardly thugs playing a video game where they shoot up random people who are a religion and color they don't like, because that's their job.
- _k 13y ago
  The US looks like a bully.
  - white_devil 13y ago
    It is a massive fucking bully.
    - pekk 13y ago
      If you don't want to be "bullied" with extradition requests and espionage charges, then you should avoid working in intelligence, then selling or giving away information that required clearance to get. Incidentally, this rule also holds if you plan to work in Russian or Chinese intelligence agencies.
vidarh 13y ago
Given that the HK governments press release reads like diplomat speak for "fuck you, we let him leave even though we know exactly where he left from, and btw. fuck you for spying on us in case you wondered why we're not doing your dirty business (ps: fuck you)", while many other governments would have bent over backwards to accommodate the US, it does indeed seem to have been a quite good starting point.
- rdouble 13y ago
  It's more like they kicked him out and wrote a snotty press release about it to save face.
  - vidarh 13y ago
    Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. But I'm pretty sure whoever wrote that press release immensely enjoyed being allowed to write something so, by diplomatic standards, incredibly crass.
  - fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
    Either way, he's evaded capture by thugs ^H^H^H^H our Glorious Freedom Loving Homeland.

At least it was possible for him to leave.

It was brilliant. Hong Kong didn't immediately jump when the US Government said to jump. It enabled Snowden to get away. So let's take score. US military has over a hundred bases globally. The CIA operates in over a hundred countries. The US intelligence budget is over $80 billion. The NSA can 'see' practically everything. And there goes Snowden, escaping on a common commercial flight out of Hong Kong. If anybody looks stupid, it's clearly the US Government.

rdouble 13y ago
Or maybe the USG doesn't really think he's all that important.
- vidarh 13y ago
  Maybe, but then their posturing still makes them look stupid.
- wavefunction 13y ago
  Maybe. Maybe they're just playing coy.
- vinceguidry 13y ago
  From watching CNN, the tone I get from the government is that they mainly want him so they can send a message to other potential leakers that this sort of behavior won't be tolerated. Is he important enough to move heaven and earth for? I didn't get that. The Obama administration needs to tread very carefully here, which is why, so long as Snowden doesn't make a stupid mistake, which it looks like he won't, he'll be able to squirrel himself away in Latin America. Obama, as head of state, needs to at least make the appearance he's protecting the power and prestige of the government. But he also needs to avoid looking like the terroristic assholes we're at war with. It's a very thin line, and I'm actually a little impressed with how he's handling this.
danenania 13y ago
HK is also one of the few places in the world that both offered a reasonable chance of not turning him over and didn't arouse too much suspicion when he requested time off. I can't imagine the NSA looks too kindly on non-business trips to Caracas, Moscow, or Havana. Even Iceland could have turned some heads given its recent streak of standing up for itself. He has roundly ruined HK for future whistleblowers though!
- avar 13y ago
  His answer here would seem to suggest that he didn't request time off: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-nsa-files-whistleblower#block-51bf2793e4b05a46aeeb319a http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/17/edward-snowden-n...
nayefc 13y ago
> If anybody looks stupid, it's clearly the US Government. Not really. What can they really do? Usually, they'd bully countries into submission. Hong Kong proved it does not bow down to the US. They also cannot really kidnap him or anything like that. It's way too public at this point, and as "terrible" the CIA sometimes is, they're not a bunch of murdering assholes like the Mossad.
- droithomme 13y ago
  You are correct the Mossad assassinates people routinely. However, this is a poorly chosen rhetorical attack in defense of the CIA since the US currently is engaging in a global assassination war using drones and other means which has murdered far far more people than the Mossad ever has, and far more of those people are completely innocent of any wrongdoing. Mossad at least picks specific and known enemy leaders and tends to assassinate only them up close and personal. It is true there is collateral damage, but the collateral killings caused by the US assassinations are much greater. The CIA is deeply involved in selecting targets and running the assassination programs, just as it was involved in horrific torture, abuse and war crimes committed against thousands of people in recent years. The CIA is a powerful and dangerous criminal organization which routinely engages in crimes against humanity. There is absolutely no defense possible for the crimes committed by the CIA. http://www.livingunderdrones.org/ http://www.livingunderdrones.org/ http://humanrightsclinic.law.stanford.edu/project/living-under-drones/ http://humanrightsclinic.law.stanford.edu/project/living-und... The argument that "at least the CIA doesn't assassinate" like some other country that has nothing to do with Snowden's case makes no sense. It's simply not true that the CIA doesn't assassinate as much as the Mossad. The CIA assassinates far more, and far more indiscriminately. The CIA assassinates by giving american kids videogame-like control over flying robotic drones and having them assassinate anyone who they think looks suspicious while eating candy and drinking soda safe in an air conditioned room thousands of miles from where the robot planes are flying patrols. When they see someone they feel like shooting they shoot them and it is assumed that person is a "militant" because they said so. To them it is a fun videogame about shooting what they call "ragheads", and other derisive terms even worse. They keep track of their kill counts as a competition. At no point do they take responsibility for their actions, consider their targets human beings, seek justice, risk their own lives, or display any intelligence or skill. They are just cowardly thugs playing a video game where they shoot up random people who are a religion and color they don't like, because that's their job.
_k 13y ago
The US looks like a bully.
- white_devil 13y ago
  It is a massive fucking bully.
  - pekk 13y ago
    If you don't want to be "bullied" with extradition requests and espionage charges, then you should avoid working in intelligence, then selling or giving away information that required clearance to get. Incidentally, this rule also holds if you plan to work in Russian or Chinese intelligence agencies.

vidarh 13y ago

Given that the HK governments press release reads like diplomat speak for "fuck you, we let him leave even though we know exactly where he left from, and btw. fuck you for spying on us in case you wondered why we're not doing your dirty business (ps: fuck you)", while many other governments would have bent over backwards to accommodate the US, it does indeed seem to have been a quite good starting point.

rdouble 13y ago
It's more like they kicked him out and wrote a snotty press release about it to save face.
- vidarh 13y ago
  Maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. But I'm pretty sure whoever wrote that press release immensely enjoyed being allowed to write something so, by diplomatic standards, incredibly crass.
- fnordfnordfnord 13y ago
  Either way, he's evaded capture by thugs ^H^H^H^H our Glorious Freedom Loving Homeland.