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Women are sensitive, fragile, inferior creatures who require constant, vigilant protection from honorable men. If it becomes necessary to take a few quotes out
by hacker789 13y ago
Women are sensitive, fragile, inferior creatures who require constant, vigilant protection from honorable men.
If it becomes necessary to take a few quotes out of context in our noble quest to protect the fairer sex, so be it.
Kudos to Kickstarter for adhering to feminist principles.
> The thing that the commenters on social media are leaving out is that the advice was taken from a section in the guide offering advice on what to do AFTER a man has met a cute girl, gotten her phone number, gone on dates, spent time getting to know her, and now are alone behind closed doors fooling around. If "Don't wait for signs, make the first move" promotes sexual assault, then "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid was a song about rape.
http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe
- lewispollard 13y agoWell of course the misogynist doesn't believe he's misogynistic. Why should his opinion matter more than the hundreds of people who complained?
- tomjen3 13y agoTruth is not subject to voting and Kickstarter has proved that they consider women inferior and in need of protection by banning this type of content.
- calibraxis 13y agoWhen companies reject racist manuals, they're not taking the position that non-whites are "inferior and in need of protection". They're simply making the ethical choice, to the dismay of the people who enjoy racist sorts of things. Same goes for the misogynist manuals they're now taking the ethical stance against. So much for your ad hominem. I'd give Kickstarter kudos, except ethics are what people are supposed to have.
- knowaveragejoe 13y agoThis is, of course, equating this guide to a manual for sexism and not what the majority of women find attractive.
- tomjen3 13y agoSeduction manuals aren't morally wrong, though, (they may be factually wrong and/or sleazy, but not morally) but racism is. Think of the difference between a book on the history of racism, with very explicit quotes, long, in dept conversations with racists, scientists and policy makers, the authors own experience in these groups, etc and the latest publication from the KKK. A seduction guide is the first. "Rapists Quarterly" is the second. Also nicely done working an adhomium in there.
- arrrg 13y agoI think seduction manuals are morally wrong.
- tomjen3 13y agoWhat you think isn't interesting, but I would like to see a comprehensive, well formulated argument as to why you think that; indeed I have commented extensively in this thread to find such an argument, but mostly its that all the other arguments just shame language (rape culture, you have a problem. I will be sincerely please if you could provide a good argument against my position.
- arrrg 13y agoI don’t think it’s possible to convince you. I will not attempt it.
- cbendeb 13y agoMorality is a very complex topic that possibly can't be proven by logic anyway. Why is racism immoral, other than the fact that we, as a society, have decided that it's immoral? I think seduction manuals are immoral because they essentially treat women like min-maxers do video games--do this, and your chance of success is raised by X%, follow this procedure to succeed, etc. It makes women into vending machines that, if the buttons are properly pressed in the right succession, will theoretically result in a prize--sex--being dispensed. I think that treating people like that is immoral. Can I prove this logically? Can I claim that this is a universal truth? Of course not, but the same is true for every moral stance.
- glassx 13y agoIt's not protection. It's respect.
- king_jester 13y agoNot facilitating the promotion of sexism and materials that essentially advocates for sexual assault isn't a statement on any gender, but rather the company is not there to support oppression.
- newnewnew 13y agoIs it misogynist to learn what women like in a partner and attempt to be that? Isn't that making a world more according to women's preferences? How is that "hatred of women"? If the author is wrong, and you write a better manual, many men struggling with the modern dating world will gladly buy your more effective book. But we aren't arguing fact, are we? We're arguing religion.
- lewispollard 13y agoYes, because women, funnily enough, are individual human beings with their own tastes and desires.
- newnewnew 13y agoWomen are, funnily enough, female members of the species homo sapiens and there is a lot of scientific evidence on what they find attractive in a potential mate.
- lewispollard 13y agoShow me this evidence. If that is really your attitude towards women then it's no wonder you feel the need to read a book like this. Try a little respect for your fellow people, you'll have much more fulfilling experiences with women if you stop believing what science tells you and actually take an interest in the people around you
- newnewnew 13y agoSure - you're three times as likely to get a woman's number if you ask while walking a dog: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201007/more-reasons-love-dogs-they-promote-prosocial-behaviors-and-they-attra http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201007... A light touch on the forearm also increases the chances of getting a number: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15534510701316177 http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15534510701316177 That's a start for ya. There's nothing this society hates more than beta males. Your comment confirms it. God forbid a guy ain't a natural with women and needs some advice. He's probably deformed, deranged, and dangerous.
- papsosouid 13y agoHow about the millions of people who didn't complain? Just because a handful of people who literally spend their entire lives seeking things to be offended by complained about something, doesn't mean their opinion is the majority, or more valid than anyone else's.
- lewispollard 13y agoThe problem I have with attitudes like this is that you're completely disregarding other people's opinions because you're not offended. If you're not part of the group being discriminated against then of course you're not offended - but that doesn't mean that people who do find it sexiest, discriminatory, offensive and oppressive have any less of a valid opinion. In fact I'd argue that it makes their opinion more valid. it's not hard just not to be an arsehole to other people.
- papsosouid 13y agoNo, I am not disregarding their opinions. They are perfectly entitled to their opinions. I am saying their opinions are not objectively correct simply because they are taking the active position of complaining, while people who aren't upset obviously don't make a lot of noise about how indifferent they are. Also, nobody is being oppressed or discriminated against in this situation.
- WA 13y agoIs this a joke? Inferior? Women like to have sex just like men do. But many women, especially in their early 20s, are often reluctant to take the first step. So a man needs to take action. That's what the whole fuss is about.
- Anderkent 13y agoIt's sarcasm. 'Women are sensitive, fragile, inferior creatures who require constant, vigilant protection from honorable men.' and therefore we must ban this kickstarter.
- tomjen3 13y agoAnd all seduction guides do is offer advise on how to do that, but somehow what is acceptable for every issue of Cosmo (and a fair number of mens magazines) isn't acceptable for a guide on kickstarter.
- rlt 13y agoI'm pretty sure the OP was being sarcastic.
- king_jester 13y agoThere is a difference between being the one to break the ice vs. violating someone's physical space, which is what the project in question advocates.
- Cushman 13y agoWomen have been the target of systematic oppression for millenia, of which sexual violence has been a primary tool. Are you open to the possibility that that might not be over quite yet? That that might actually be deserving of a little sensitivity?
- hacker789 13y agoOh yes. I'm sure everyone would agree history has been so much easier on men than on women. The world isn't black and white.
- pizza234 13y agoThat's a very naive thought Do you think that women in the meanwhile, has been just poor victims? Don't forget that women are generally way ahead of men in human skills. Men and women have, their own forms of dominance. I agree that physical dominance is despicable, but don't think that the forms of dominance were going only in a single direction.
- Cushman 13y agoNo. This is ludicrous revisionism, and you should be ashamed for saying it. You do not get to treat a group of people as property for thousands of years, and then when they finally claw a measure of autonomy back from you say, "Well, that about evens the score."
- 13y ago
- scarmig 13y ago”5) Get CLOSE to her, damn it! To quote Rob Judge, “Personal space is for pussies.” I already told you that the most successful seducers are those who can’t keep their hands off of women. Well you’re not gonna be able to do that if you aren’t in close! ” “All the greatest seducers in history could not keep their hands off of women. They aggressively escalated physically with every woman they were flirting with. They began touching them immediately, kept great body language and eye contact, and were shameless in their physicality. Even when a girl rejects your advances, she KNOWS that you desire her. That’s hot. It arouses her physically and psychologically.” “Decide that you’re going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don’t ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances.” I don't know if it should have been removed from Kickstarter, but this is bad, bad behavior that must be discouraged. As for the "whip your cock out and drag her hand to it" bit, everything's contextual, but for some reason I'm skeptical that people buying a "seduction guide" will grok the very subtle facets of circumstance that might make that consensual.
- cgag 13y agoExcuse me miss may I please sit close to you and touch you? May I kiss you now? How exactly do you think people should go about this kind of thing?
- scarmig 13y ago1) Don't do anything that doesn't have her consent. 2) "Yes means yes" is a better slogan than "no means no." 3) Always be conscious of whether she seems comfortable or not and whether she's enjoying herself. This can be tricky, but always, always err on the side of caution. If she seems merely bored or uninterested, you should consider that a no. That's really all you need. That and volume: if someone isn't interested, don't take it personally and don't force it. Just move onto someone else. Most pairings aren't meant to happen. If you follow my earlier advice and take care of yourself, it will pretty much automatically.
- tomp 13y ago
- Metrop0218 13y agoEDIT: Apparently the OP was being sarcastic, and I failed to read deep enough into the ASCII characters. But if he hadn't been sarcastic, I would've still said what I said below. What the hell? I had to read this over 6 times to make sure I was understanding it correctly. "Women are sensitive, fragile, inferior creatures who require constant, vigilant protection from honorable men." That right there ladies and gentlemen, is the thinking that permeates and sustains misogyny throughout our world. I understand that the original poster had good intentions, but the way is high and his eyes are definitely upon the ground. Women are not sensitive, fragil, or inferior. Please avoid false blanket statements like this.
- rlt 13y agoHint: sarcasm
- Metrop0218 13y agoAh, pretty poorly worded sarcasm there.
- jff 13y agoIt's sarcasm, dumbass.
- Metrop0218 13y agoIt's pretty poorly done sarcasm, as many others didn't believe it either, asshole.
- throwaway4004 13y agoI'm so glad this is the top comment. I've read almost all of the author's comments on reddit and he writes like a man who respects women deeply but also understands that a lot of men do not understand how to talk to and deal with women. I understand that 'seduction' is a band brand, one which people react negatively to when the see it, but by looking at the material you will probably find that it isn't offensive at all. The quotes are taken out of context and are not a good sample of the material. The truth is, most women are so bored at a bar and in life with the guys they meet, they are probably bigger beneficiaries of the material than the guys who read it.
- doktrin 13y agoWhat I dislike most about these discussions is that it invariably attracts ideologues of all stripes, of which you appear to be one. > "Women are sensitive, fragile, inferior creatures who require constant, vigilant protection from honorable men. > Kudos to Kickstarter for adhering to feminist principles." You're attacking a straw man with ad-hominems. More importantly, you're glossing over the fact that women legitimately face threats and concerns that are significantly different from those of men. It's disingenuous to paint this as a plot by evil feminists. Relevant : "More than one in three women worldwide have experienced physical or sexual violence, a report by the World Health Organization and other groups says. It says 38% of all women murdered were killed by their partners, and such violence is a major contributor to depression and other health problems." [1] [1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22975103 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-22975103
- newnewnew 13y agoI missed the chapter on murdering your partner.
- Crake 13y agoWell, it probably helps that male rape culture is in full effect. In the UK, it's legally not even possible for a woman to rape a male. Most US organizations won't count it either--the FBI found almost a 50/50 ratio of male and female rape victims, but a man being raped didn't count as rape because it "didn't count as rape." If there is a rape culture, I'm not entirely sure it's a female rape culture. Raping a female is basically condemned by everyone at this point. Case in point: national outrage over the Steubenville thing. Domestic violence rates have been for years known to be roughly 50/50 between the sexes. Some studies have even found that women are slightly more likely than men to initiate violence. Of course, only women get societal support and access to domestic violence shelters. My father was warned by the police that if he ever called them when my mother was beating him, the police would be forced to arrest him instead (due to the domestic violence laws pushed through by feminists in the VAWA).
- newnewnew 13y agoThe tension in feminism between sexual liberation, on the one hand, and repression of male sexuality on the other is remarkable. And make no doubt, feminism is now included in the official religion of our day. How long before "misogynist" tweets are banned on twitter? Before "misogynists" are kicked off of facebook? And don't worry gentlemen, it is not violating your freedom of speech because these are private companies controlling every means of communication you have... We are slouching towards a soft tyranny of the mind, driven by the marxist ideology that each member of an "inferior" group has the right to not be offended.
- scarmig 13y agoRight not be offended? Right not to be groped or sexually assaulted, you mean. They're offensive, but much more than that too.
- newnewnew 13y agoA woman is twice as likely to give you her number if you touch her on her shoulder or arm when you first meet her. Touch is a powerful social lubricant[1]. Is that psychology experiment now a hatefact that we must unlearn? Perhaps we should fire the psychologist who did the experiment. [1] http://www.spring.org.uk/2011/04/10-psychological-effects-of-nonsexual-touch.php http://www.spring.org.uk/2011/04/10-psychological-effects-of...
- papsosouid 13y agoThe kickstarter was for publishing a book, not paying someone to assault people.
- Cushman 13y agoMale sexuality is not about violence, and repression of violence is not repression of male sexuality. Signed, a man.
- king_jester 13y ago> The tension in feminism between sexual liberation, on the one hand, and repression of male sexuality on the other is remarkable. Male sexuality isn't the domination of women and feminism makes no attempt to quash people's sexuality. This is pretty close to attributing social strata and gender roles to biological determinism, which is totally false. > And make no doubt, feminism is now included in the official religion of our day. Feminism has not been and is not a religion. Further, given the existing statistical data about social inequality, we can most certainly say that feminism is NOT a mainstream point of view for must people in the United States. > How long before "misogynist" tweets are banned on twitter? Before "misogynists" are kicked off of facebook? Given how much misogynistic stuff is on both facebook and twitter, never. But rest assured people will call you out for misogynistic crap and they are right to do so. > And don't worry gentlemen, it is not violating your freedom of speech because these are private companies controlling every means of communication you have... The nature of capitalism and corporatism w.r.t. the internet is another discussion to have. > We are slouching towards a soft tyranny of the mind, driven by the marxist ideology that each member of an "inferior" group has the right to not be offended. Feminism is not Marxism, except maybe that women as a class have a right to control the output of their labor (like all laboring classes), but that's another kind of discussion. If you believe that people challenging misogyny and kickstarter projects like this that promote rape and sexual assault is some kind of encroachment of your life, then you are part of the problem.