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Look at all these HNers defending sexual assault.
by DannoHung 13y ago
Look at all these HNers defending sexual assault.
- emiljbs 13y agoOh, wow, really? So just because some people are asking "Hey, is there something intrinsically wrong with these guides or what?" they're defending sexual assault.
- blocking_io 13y agoYes, because there is something intrinsically wrong with these guides.
- dionidium 13y agoI think what you're experiencing here is a crowd that isn't satisfied with claims of intrinsic wrongness that don't include evidence. You do realize that you're not allowed to just state opinions as facts, right? That's not really how arguments work around here.
- blocking_io 13y agoThis is a direct quote from a guide written by the author of the guide under discussion: Never, ever, ever, wait for a SIGN before you escalate! You will miss out on the vast majority of chances if you sit around waiting for SIGNS. Men are notoriously bad at reading women's minds and body language. Don't think that you're any different. From now on you must ASSUME that she is attracted to you and wants to be ravished. It's a difference in mindset that makes champs champs and chumps chumps… Decide that you're going to sit in a position where you can rub her leg and back. Physically pick her up and sit her on your lap. Don't ask for permission. Be dominant. Force her to rebuff your advances The author advises his readers to assume that their partner consents to sexual activity. This is a recipe for sexual assault. At some point one of his readers will misread the signs put out by a partner and they will sexually assault them.
- thatswrong0 13y ago> The author advises his readers to assume that their partner consents to sexual activity. And this is a direct misinterpretation of what the author said. The author states: > From now on you must ASSUME that she is attracted to you and wants to be ravished. There is a difference. The author says that you should assume the woman is attracted to you, not that she is consenting to sexual activity. It's pretty damn clear. He further states that if a girl says no at any point, you stop.
- dragonwriter 13y ago> The author states: > > From now on you must ASSUME that she is attracted to you and wants to be ravished. > There is a difference. The author says that you should assume the woman is attracted to you, not that she is consenting to sexual activity. That's not really the most natural reading of what you quote the author as having written. If that's really what the author intended, the word choice ("you must ASSUME she ... wants to be ravished") is quite poor. ravish tr.v. rav·ished, rav·ish·ing, rav·ish·es (1) To seize and carry away by force. (2) To force (another) to have sexual intercourse; rape. (3) To overwhelm with emotion; enrapture. See Synonyms at enrapture. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ravish http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ravish
- blocking_io 13y agoNo you are misreading it. The author is saying do not think that she does not want to have sex. As in, get rid of any doubt in your mind.
- tomjen3 13y agoThat kind of arguments are not worthy of HN. Nothing here is beyond debate (it may be of topic but that is different), nothing, no matter how strongly you feel about it is beyond debate here and shutting down a debate and declaring the other a monster simply for opening a debate is tantamount to admitting that you hold believes that you are so weakly tied to that you can't defend them.
- blocking_io 13y agoI am not shutting down the debate. I am not declaring anyone a monster. I am merely pointing out that if you are defending the guide, you are defending a sexual assault manual. That is the reality of the situation.
- tomjen3 13y agoNow you go a head and do it again - simply declaring your point of view as fact is shutting down the debate. Please, post your arguments and how you came to your conclusion not just state it (I think schools used to call it show your work).
- blocking_io 13y agoHere's my comment to someone else. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5919383 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5919383
- ebbv 13y agoAnd people wonder why there aren't more women in tech.
- blocking_io 13y agoHN is ground zero for privilege denying wealthy cis white men.
- Chris2048 13y agoWhat's the insinuation here?
- blocking_io 13y agoMany HN commenters do not understand, nor want to understand, the reality of the experiences of marginalised groups.
- Crake 13y agoThat if you are white, or cis, or a male, then you are innately evil and do not deserve to be treated with the respect that all humans deserve.
- blocking_io 13y agoIf you are white, cis and male, you need to understand how that affects positively how society treats you. Because society treats you better than any other group. Then you need to think about how that shapes your opinions so that you can understand the complaints of the less privileged. For example, if you are a white New Yorker, you might say "stop and frisk is fine, I never get stopped so they must only be stopping criminals". However, once you realise that the police disproportionately stop black people, you are better able to understand black people's complaints about the policy. It's nothing sinister or hateful. It's a way to critically evaluate ones own biases.
- Crake 13y agoIt's not a way to critically evaluate biases, the way you and others use it today. It's a way to insult people for the sexuality, sex, or ethnicity they were born to. Do you really want to behave in the same way the people on Fox News do?
- shawabawa3 13y agoI think you're a murderer. Anyone who defends you is defending murder.
- blocking_io 13y agobrilliant analogy apart from the bit where this guide actually does advocate sexual assault.
- shawabawa3 13y agoAccording to who? Your opinion? Did you even read the author's defense?
- blocking_io 13y agoYes of course I have. I have also read the guides on reddit where he tells the reader to sexually assault their partner.
- merlincorey 13y agoPlease link to said guide and describe exactly how to navigate to this section.
- blocking_io 13y agoHere you go: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:40tT3neK7egJ:www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1dvnem/above_the_game_part_7_physical_escalation_sex/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:40tT3ne... Search for 'permission' to find him directly telling the reader not to ask for consent.
- merlincorey 13y agoThe chapter linked appears to be called "Physical Escalation and Sex" and seems to be very late in the book. Consent is assumed in the situation because of all the stuff leading up to it. Like the getting the number, the going out on dates, talking a lot, and finally ending up alone with them in their or your own residence. Are you sure you've had sexual congress with a woman before? As many other posters are pointing out in this thread, most real women absolutely do not want to be asked for permission every step of the way. Furthermore, the author includes quite a bit of text about respecting when consent is explicitly withdrawn, which is something I hope we can all agree is a good thing, without getting lost in, "but you should discuss it first". Most people don't, and that's the reality we live in.
- superuser2 13y agoIs there proof that the guide was promoting sexual assault?
- theorique 13y agoNo. It suggested aggressive tactics for communicating your interest in a girl, not sexual assault. Doesn't seem to have slowed down the twitter / tumblr hysteria at all, though.
- angersock 13y agoLook at this one HN ignoring the documented context for the remarks. Sexual acts, taken out of the context of mutually-interested intercourse, do very much resemble assault. It's a funny sort of fact of life. Put even more coarsely, to quote probably one or more very confused offspring having happened upon unlocked doors "Why are mommy and daddy wrestling?"
- merlincorey 13y agoFrom the author: > The thing that the commenters on social media are leaving out is that the advice was taken from a section in the guide offering advice on what to do AFTER a man has met a cute girl, gotten her phone number, gone on dates, spent time getting to know her, and now are alone behind closed doors fooling around. If "Don't wait for signs, make the first move" promotes sexual assault, then "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid was a song about rape. http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe http://pastebin.com/zwHYzCZe
- blocking_io 13y agoSorry, but if you're using a Disney film as an example of a good portrayal of women, you've already lost.
- merlincorey 13y agoUmmmm... wut? I'm not using a Disney film as an example of a good portrayal of women, and neither is the author of the seduction book. The implication is that the Disney movie, made and marketed for children, has a song called "Kiss the girl" which is about as rape-y as the advice in the seduction manual. Which is to say not at all.
- blocking_io 13y agoThe whole premise of The Little Mermaid is paternalistic and problematic.
- Crake 13y agoOh my god. Really? Guess you better go tell a bunch of little girls that they aren't allowed to like whatever their favorite female Disney protagonist happens to be.
- blocking_io 13y agoJust because little girls like it, doesn't mean it isn't problematic.
- tomjen3 13y agoLook at you, unable to understand that things aren't binary and that it is possible to be interested in seduction guides and wanting to have consensual sex with attractive women without wanting to rape them. It might even, gasp, be possible that women wants to have sex with men. Have you considered that.