5 ms·

The American Express Blues

27 points by ciscoriordan 17y ago

russell 17y ago
Counterpoint: BofA suspended my account because of a suspicious $1 charge. They thought it might be a probe to to see if the account was active before flooding the account. I looked at the charge and it didn't look like anything I had seen. Two days later I got a new card.
thinkcomp 17y ago
I've had the same problem. My credit history is perfect, I've had at least one American Express card at all times since 1998, and they recently flagged a $150 purchase at Staples (on a corporate card) as fraudulent. Then they did it again when I bought a computer. I've never had this happen at all until last month.
- silencio 17y ago
  This is worrisome, because I use American Express for personal and business use. Was there anything that prompted that? I haven't run into any trouble (except the hassle of online payments) yet knock on wood, and I'm wondering if it was something like one late payment that prompts amex to start being stupid to long-time customers.
- tptacek 17y ago
  How long did it take in each case to resolve the problem? If you're just losing 4 minutes on the phone with Amex customer service, I'm not really worried about my card.
  - sho 17y ago
    That's a stressful 4 minutes arguing with someone on the phone, while trying to avoid the annoyed glares of the line behind you, that I'd rather not spend.
octane 17y ago
Does anyone know of a site on the net where AmEx customers have come together to complain or at least contribute anecdotes so we can get an overall feel of how many customers this is really affecting? If venture capitalists are getting their purchases denied, this concerns me as a small business owner because I depend on my amex card more than anything else to make purchases for my business and having my buyer protection and ability to make large purchases disappear would be pretty devastating. Buying goods like computers and furniture from multiple vendors with cash out of my bank account is an awful idea that should make anyone uneasy, business owner or not. And if AmEx is actively shutting their largest and most high-profile accounts down, I'm not sure how easy it would be to get a new "unlimited" line of credit in this environment, with AmEx or any other company.
quellhorst 17y ago
I have an American Express Plum Card, never had any problems with charges and really depend on the card to help my cash flow.
lallysingh 17y ago
A question: Why does AMEX matter? I had a card (for a startup, a long time ago), and I found that most places just didn't take it. Was I missing something? Did they have other functionality that made them worthwhile?
- tptacek 17y ago
  Off the top of my head: * Amex cards don't have pre-set limits. That's now true of many other business cards too, but the fee structures still differ. Visa allows/expects/hopes you'll carry a balance on your card. Amex disallows it. * In business-to-business situations, everyone accepts Amex. * Amex has absolutely killer customer service. There is simply no comparison. Amex dispute resolution is "default deny" to merchants; when I've contested charges, I've never spent more than 5 minutes on the phone. Total. I feel safer charging big-ticket items on my Amex than on any other card. The major difference between Amex and Visa is the business model; Visa is a payment system that works through card-issuing banks. Your relationship isn't with the card; it's to some bank. Amex is a company, and your relationship is to Amex.
  - nopassrecover 17y ago
    The problem here is that "default deny" means merchants are constantly chasing after Amex to actually get money owed them - disputes are a particular hassle for Amex as compared to Visa/MasterCard. Besides which, merchant costs are higher with Amex. In Australia at least it's the exception now to support Amex and additional fees are charged by the merchant to cover these hassles.
    - tptacek 17y ago
      This "problem" seems like a major feature to me.
      - nopassrecover 17y ago
        Except there is no way for merchants to prove themselves - they can do phone authorisations, take copies of driver licences, get signatures and more and they are still out at the end of the month. What's more, Amex will either withhold the money, or if a late chargeback debit it straight from other money Amex owes the mechant before even settling the situation. Merchants shouldn't be penalised because Amex doesn't have a sufficient authentication mechanism. Visa (or your bank) manage to reconcile the situation first.
eli 17y ago
Always paying your bill and never being late may not be their idea of a perfect customer. Especially if we're talking about Blue which is just a regular credit card and accrues lucrative interest if you don't pay it in full every month.
- tptacek 17y ago
  Don't know about Amex Blue, which a business certainly isn't using, but all charges on Amex Gold and Business cards are due when the statement arrives. I'm pretty sure you're wrong about Amex's idea of a perfect customer.
madair 17y ago
I had really horrible experiences with Amex, but on the opposite side, as a small business owner. In my opinion (libel zone here) they purposefully squeeze very small businesses, as a matter of policy. American Express came very close to sinking my business, having to tell employees that their paycheck was late, even though we had crossed every T to make sure that our customers payments were on time, due to American Express causing problems that would purposefully keep large payment amounts in their own coffers for the smallest and most manufactured of "issues", was one of the worst experiences of my professional life. You know how customers who are "king" often fume that they supposedly will "never do business again" with some company due to some perceived slight? Well, I am fully aware that I may lose business, lose money, and fail to get customers for my choice, but they hurt me, my reputation, my sanity, my employees, so badly with their selective policy enforcement that I will truly never do business with American Express again. You have to draw the line somewhere.
adatta02 17y ago
I can only speak to my personal gold card (which is pretty new) but I've also had issues with my card being frozen unexpectedly for charges they thought were illegitimate. I think the big rub here is that American Express will freeze your card without informing you first. This leads to the uncomfortable situation where you try and swipe the card and it is immediately declined Hopefully things will settle down in the next few months. What I can say is that so far AMEX customer service has been top notch - my issues have always been handled promptly and professionally . Their travel services division also came through in a pinch a few months ago.

27 points by ciscoriordan 17y ago

Counterpoint: BofA suspended my account because of a suspicious $1 charge. They thought it might be a probe to to see if the account was active before flooding the account. I looked at the charge and it didn't look like anything I had seen. Two days later I got a new card.

thinkcomp 17y ago

I've had the same problem. My credit history is perfect, I've had at least one American Express card at all times since 1998, and they recently flagged a $150 purchase at Staples (on a corporate card) as fraudulent. Then they did it again when I bought a computer. I've never had this happen at all until last month.

silencio 17y ago
This is worrisome, because I use American Express for personal and business use. Was there anything that prompted that? I haven't run into any trouble (except the hassle of online payments) yet knock on wood, and I'm wondering if it was something like one late payment that prompts amex to start being stupid to long-time customers.
tptacek 17y ago
How long did it take in each case to resolve the problem? If you're just losing 4 minutes on the phone with Amex customer service, I'm not really worried about my card.
- sho 17y ago
  That's a stressful 4 minutes arguing with someone on the phone, while trying to avoid the annoyed glares of the line behind you, that I'd rather not spend.

octane 17y ago

Does anyone know of a site on the net where AmEx customers have come together to complain or at least contribute anecdotes so we can get an overall feel of how many customers this is really affecting? If venture capitalists are getting their purchases denied, this concerns me as a small business owner because I depend on my amex card more than anything else to make purchases for my business and having my buyer protection and ability to make large purchases disappear would be pretty devastating. Buying goods like computers and furniture from multiple vendors with cash out of my bank account is an awful idea that should make anyone uneasy, business owner or not. And if AmEx is actively shutting their largest and most high-profile accounts down, I'm not sure how easy it would be to get a new "unlimited" line of credit in this environment, with AmEx or any other company.

quellhorst 17y ago

I have an American Express Plum Card, never had any problems with charges and really depend on the card to help my cash flow.

lallysingh 17y ago

A question: Why does AMEX matter? I had a card (for a startup, a long time ago), and I found that most places just didn't take it. Was I missing something? Did they have other functionality that made them worthwhile?

tptacek 17y ago
Off the top of my head: * Amex cards don't have pre-set limits. That's now true of many other business cards too, but the fee structures still differ. Visa allows/expects/hopes you'll carry a balance on your card. Amex disallows it. * In business-to-business situations, everyone accepts Amex. * Amex has absolutely killer customer service. There is simply no comparison. Amex dispute resolution is "default deny" to merchants; when I've contested charges, I've never spent more than 5 minutes on the phone. Total. I feel safer charging big-ticket items on my Amex than on any other card. The major difference between Amex and Visa is the business model; Visa is a payment system that works through card-issuing banks. Your relationship isn't with the card; it's to some bank. Amex is a company, and your relationship is to Amex.
- nopassrecover 17y ago
  The problem here is that "default deny" means merchants are constantly chasing after Amex to actually get money owed them - disputes are a particular hassle for Amex as compared to Visa/MasterCard. Besides which, merchant costs are higher with Amex. In Australia at least it's the exception now to support Amex and additional fees are charged by the merchant to cover these hassles.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    This "problem" seems like a major feature to me.
    - nopassrecover 17y ago
      Except there is no way for merchants to prove themselves - they can do phone authorisations, take copies of driver licences, get signatures and more and they are still out at the end of the month. What's more, Amex will either withhold the money, or if a late chargeback debit it straight from other money Amex owes the mechant before even settling the situation. Merchants shouldn't be penalised because Amex doesn't have a sufficient authentication mechanism. Visa (or your bank) manage to reconcile the situation first.

eli 17y ago

Always paying your bill and never being late may not be their idea of a perfect customer. Especially if we're talking about Blue which is just a regular credit card and accrues lucrative interest if you don't pay it in full every month.

tptacek 17y ago
Don't know about Amex Blue, which a business certainly isn't using, but all charges on Amex Gold and Business cards are due when the statement arrives. I'm pretty sure you're wrong about Amex's idea of a perfect customer.

madair 17y ago

I had really horrible experiences with Amex, but on the opposite side, as a small business owner. In my opinion (libel zone here) they purposefully squeeze very small businesses, as a matter of policy. American Express came very close to sinking my business, having to tell employees that their paycheck was late, even though we had crossed every T to make sure that our customers payments were on time, due to American Express causing problems that would purposefully keep large payment amounts in their own coffers for the smallest and most manufactured of "issues", was one of the worst experiences of my professional life. You know how customers who are "king" often fume that they supposedly will "never do business again" with some company due to some perceived slight? Well, I am fully aware that I may lose business, lose money, and fail to get customers for my choice, but they hurt me, my reputation, my sanity, my employees, so badly with their selective policy enforcement that I will truly never do business with American Express again. You have to draw the line somewhere.

adatta02 17y ago

I can only speak to my personal gold card (which is pretty new) but I've also had issues with my card being frozen unexpectedly for charges they thought were illegitimate. I think the big rub here is that American Express will freeze your card without informing you first. This leads to the uncomfortable situation where you try and swipe the card and it is immediately declined Hopefully things will settle down in the next few months. What I can say is that so far AMEX customer service has been top notch - my issues have always been handled promptly and professionally . Their travel services division also came through in a pinch a few months ago.