4 ms·

This is a little creepy and Skynet-ish, but compared to the massive CF that is NSA's unconstitutional, invasive, pile of private information, it's just a distra

by Uhhrrr 13y ago

This is a little creepy and Skynet-ish, but compared to the massive CF that is NSA's unconstitutional, invasive, pile of private information, it's just a distraction. It's no different than when the police fly over your house in a helicopter and look down. EDIT: I should have said "no different, legally, than when". This does allow surveillance on a greater scale, and maybe that will change people's feelings about it. But the information asymmetry isn't as great as it is with NSA. Ordinary citizens are allowed to fly drones, so why not the FBI?

CapitalistCartr 13y ago
It is massively different. All of the ways in which technology changes law enforcement have the same problem. The primary protector of our liberties has been economics: the government couldn't afford to follow many of us. If we weren't mostly law-abiding citizens, LE would be easily overwhelmed. But technology changes all that. Putting a helicopter in the air with a police pilot is a huge expense. Putting a thousand drones in the air is cheaper. And the benefit doesn't stop there. Computers can correlate data, follow individuals, listen in, eliminating the need for an army of support people. A few agents at their desks can lay out the overall plan, and software can implement "Big Brother". But wait, there's more. As tech makes us wealthier, it also makes our government wealthier, while lowering the cost of drones, bandwidth, servers, software, etc. So in a decade, we could have perhaps ten thousand drones instead of one thousand. How long drones pick up cell phone transmissions for better tracking? After all, its publicly broadcast data.
discostrings 13y ago
> It's no different than when the police fly over your house in a helicopter and look down. It's at least an order of magnitude cheaper and easier to do. Thus, it will be much more prevalent. It's like looking at how many people have printers at home when there are $50 inkjets out there compared to a world where the least expensive printer was $3500. And in which the consumables for the $50 inkjet were also less than 1/10 the price. EDIT: I'm referring to the near future, not the present. Currently, drones are still quite expensive. It's like a time when inkjet printers were just developed, and only 100 were produced. Once production ramps up and the technology is refined, the price plummets.
- jm4 13y ago
  I saw you make this argument elsewhere in the thread. Do you have a source? I would expect the opposite to be true- at least until drones become more prevalent. There is a lot more that goes into these systems than a model-sized self flying aircraft. On a somewhat related note, there was a recent AMA on reddit from a drone pilot: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ghkm7/iama_drone_sensor_operator_i_have_flown_hundreds/ http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ghkm7/iama_drone_sens...
  - discostrings 13y ago
    I guess I got a little ahead of myself. In my comment, I was referring more to the near future than to the present. I think you're correct--until this becomes common and has undergone a few rounds of revisions, the numbers I gave are not in line with the current situation. I still maintain the numbers as a likely reality in the near future. Once drones become common, they will be much cheaper than helicopters. If there are facts I'm missing in that assessment, I'd love to hear them. Thanks for sharing the AMA--checking it out now!
  - alan_cx 13y ago
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tLiZxjQrVg&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tLiZxjQrVg&feature=player_em... No, that kid isnt me!!! But note the age. Detail here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1335765 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1335765 More here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DHoLYf5pMA&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DHoLYf5pMA&feature=related A sample of easily available code here: https://code.google.com/p/simple-flight-controller/ https://code.google.com/p/simple-flight-controller/ Larger versions available. For some in to RC models, these things are trivial to build. Adding cameras is old hat nowadays. Only problem I see is long range control. But that might just be my lack of knowledge
adventured 13y ago
Except for at least one major thing: ARGUS http://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty-free-speech-national-security/drone-nightmare-scenario-now-has-physical http://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty-free-speech-... You can't reasonably do that with manned helicopters, it'd be wildly impractical. UAVs however are ideal for it. Particularly smaller, lighter, UAV helicopters that can hover in a zone for extreme periods of time recording everything in very high resolution. And over the next decade or two the technology will advance radically, enabling 24/7, simultaneous (the UAVs working in a grid tandem) surveillance at high resolution over all areas of every metro. It's not a question of if this will happen, but how soon.

by Uhhrrr 13y ago

CapitalistCartr 13y ago

It is massively different. All of the ways in which technology changes law enforcement have the same problem. The primary protector of our liberties has been economics: the government couldn't afford to follow many of us. If we weren't mostly law-abiding citizens, LE would be easily overwhelmed. But technology changes all that. Putting a helicopter in the air with a police pilot is a huge expense. Putting a thousand drones in the air is cheaper. And the benefit doesn't stop there. Computers can correlate data, follow individuals, listen in, eliminating the need for an army of support people. A few agents at their desks can lay out the overall plan, and software can implement "Big Brother". But wait, there's more. As tech makes us wealthier, it also makes our government wealthier, while lowering the cost of drones, bandwidth, servers, software, etc. So in a decade, we could have perhaps ten thousand drones instead of one thousand. How long drones pick up cell phone transmissions for better tracking? After all, its publicly broadcast data.

discostrings 13y ago

> It's no different than when the police fly over your house in a helicopter and look down. It's at least an order of magnitude cheaper and easier to do. Thus, it will be much more prevalent. It's like looking at how many people have printers at home when there are $50 inkjets out there compared to a world where the least expensive printer was $3500. And in which the consumables for the $50 inkjet were also less than 1/10 the price. EDIT: I'm referring to the near future, not the present. Currently, drones are still quite expensive. It's like a time when inkjet printers were just developed, and only 100 were produced. Once production ramps up and the technology is refined, the price plummets.

jm4 13y ago
I saw you make this argument elsewhere in the thread. Do you have a source? I would expect the opposite to be true- at least until drones become more prevalent. There is a lot more that goes into these systems than a model-sized self flying aircraft. On a somewhat related note, there was a recent AMA on reddit from a drone pilot: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ghkm7/iama_drone_sensor_operator_i_have_flown_hundreds/ http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1ghkm7/iama_drone_sens...
- discostrings 13y ago
  I guess I got a little ahead of myself. In my comment, I was referring more to the near future than to the present. I think you're correct--until this becomes common and has undergone a few rounds of revisions, the numbers I gave are not in line with the current situation. I still maintain the numbers as a likely reality in the near future. Once drones become common, they will be much cheaper than helicopters. If there are facts I'm missing in that assessment, I'd love to hear them. Thanks for sharing the AMA--checking it out now!
- alan_cx 13y ago
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tLiZxjQrVg&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tLiZxjQrVg&feature=player_em... No, that kid isnt me!!! But note the age. Detail here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1335765 http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1335765 More here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DHoLYf5pMA&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DHoLYf5pMA&feature=related A sample of easily available code here: https://code.google.com/p/simple-flight-controller/ https://code.google.com/p/simple-flight-controller/ Larger versions available. For some in to RC models, these things are trivial to build. Adding cameras is old hat nowadays. Only problem I see is long range control. But that might just be my lack of knowledge

adventured 13y ago

Except for at least one major thing: ARGUS http://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty-free-speech-national-security/drone-nightmare-scenario-now-has-physical http://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty-free-speech-... You can't reasonably do that with manned helicopters, it'd be wildly impractical. UAVs however are ideal for it. Particularly smaller, lighter, UAV helicopters that can hover in a zone for extreme periods of time recording everything in very high resolution. And over the next decade or two the technology will advance radically, enabling 24/7, simultaneous (the UAVs working in a grid tandem) surveillance at high resolution over all areas of every metro. It's not a question of if this will happen, but how soon.