6 ms·

nonetheless, these things are not unknown to have happened nefariously

by triplesec 13y ago

tptacek 13y ago
If that's true, you should be able to provide an example.
- protomyth 13y ago
  I don't believe this was nefarious and I do respect you tptacek, but cutting the break line is not an unknown way to attempt to off someone. It was even in the wheelhouse of these gomers http://5newsonline.com/2013/03/06/moms-brake-line-cut-over-custody-fight-police-say/ http://5newsonline.com/2013/03/06/moms-brake-line-cut-over-c...
  - tptacek 13y ago
    Any cases where anyone murdered a reporter by sabotaging their car, or where the US government murdered a reporter by any means at all would be fine.
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      Well, define "US government". Does every single US politician have to be in the same room and give the order, or what? http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/07/iraq-j01.html http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/07/iraq-j01.html The killing of journalists seeking to document or expose allegations of state-organised murder has accompanied every dirty war against a civilian population. Since the US occupation of Iraq began, dozens of reporters, cameramen and other media workers have been killed by American-led forces in suspicious circumstances that were never independently investigated.
    - contingencies 13y ago
      http://collateralmurder.com/ http://collateralmurder.com/
    - protomyth 13y ago
      David Holden was believed to have been killed by the CIA (either on order via Egyptians or directly). Multiple car bombs have killed journalists in Iraq, but I seem to remember a case in the US (will look later) of the brake line cut variety.
    - GalacticDomin8r 13y ago
      Google much? http://www.ire.org/about/history/ http://www.ire.org/about/history/
      - kragen 13y ago
        While, as others pointed out, the well-known Collateral Murder video is in part about the US Government murdering a team of journalists, I don't see anything on that page or on the timeline it links to saying the US Government was involved in murdering Don Bolles.
    - sillysaurus 13y ago
      You know it's a bad week on HN when tptacek (or anyone) is downvoted for asking for an example of a far-fetched claim.
      - tptacek 13y ago
        It was a really dumb question for me to have asked; it's like I dared them.
        protomyth 13y ago
        An open-ended question like that about people's foolish ways to try to off their fellows in a single profession[1] is going to generate a lot of examples. Car bombs seem to be an easy way with some folks[2]. Heck, fark.com has many on a weekly basis. Reading the Church Committee stuff gives a pretty good idea of how wild west our government got (and likely still is given the drones). For the record, I still think this incident was a simple accident. 1) en.rsf.org keeps track of attacks on the press 2) Nasrullah Afridi died on May 10 when a bomb exploded under his car after he entered it.
        coldtea 13y ago
        Yes, it was really a dumb question. And the condescending tone, of the American that believes everything he is told even more so. Hindsight's a bitch too: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/24/journalist-michael-hastings-last-email-fbis-invest/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/24/journalist-m...
    - rdl 13y ago
      The US has killed a lot of journalists internationally. Generally more in the form of "collateral damage" (often acknowledged), but I'm pretty willing to believe either US personnel or those acting as its agents did murder people in various Central/South American and African conflicts in the 40s-80s (and mainly pre-Church).
    - samstave 13y ago
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16501566 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16501566 I find it really amazing that you are not well versed in some of the tactics employed in international espionage and "source neutralization".... As someone who is purportedly a security expert, I believe it would behoove you to square up on physical/psychological/political warfare -- as cyberwar is simply an additional channel for the stated three. TpTacek, you're brilliant,but sometimes you're also an... I am beginning to think your paycheck is subsidized by those who would want you to use your credibility in their favor but at detriment to your own...
  - lazyjones 13y ago
    With modern cars, you don't need to cut brake lines. You just connect something to the OBD-2 port and control it as you like: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9229919/Car_hacking_Remote_access_and_other_security_issues http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9229919/Car_hacking_R...
- triplesec 13y ago
  I don' necessarily believe this is nefarious. I just believe we should remember that it's possible. Proof is hard when it's the CIA. They're professionals at covering things up. I'm far from an Alex Jones on such things, but I like to be highly sceptical of everything, and keep an open mind. Here is a historical maybe: I don't have time to trawl through for good ones, as there are a lot of more, er.. unusual sites out there who'll believe anything. However, there are some aspersions cast over the deaths of some former white house aides too. http://spartacus-educational.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/did-cia-murder-journalist-working-on.html http://spartacus-educational.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/did-cia-...
- coldtea 13y ago
  Journalists have been killed by governments (and police) all over the world, including in Western countries. And lots have been murdered by unknown persons while investigating political corruption and similar matters. Those kind of things can vary from a targeted operation to a general "go get those troublemakers by any means necessary" attitude instilled to the police. Stuff like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rub%C3%A9n_Salazar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rub%C3%A9n_Salazar Or several of the cases in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_t... Of course they don't go advertising those kind of things. What sometimes gets known is only due to gross cases of incompetence or pure chance. To a guy that's into the official versions of things it can sound ludicrous. But then again, worse things happened. He would have said the exact same thing for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment
- GalacticDomin8r 13y ago
  > If that's true, you should be able to provide an example. Are you saying you're not aware of any retribution killings for journalism? I'm all for skepticism, but I've always understood that to mean it's your own problem to dig into this stuff. Asking for citation on a common knowledge item does no one any favors most especially yourself. http://cpj.org/reports/2005/05/murderous-05.php http://cpj.org/reports/2005/05/murderous-05.php
- adventured 13y ago
  I'm not listing this as an actual example, it's just for fun in the name of conspiracy theories in regards to powerful political figures murdering people: The Clinton body count (and I'll admit, it's a freaky list, but probably only because so many people have crossed paths with the Clintons) http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp
logn 13y ago
Whether nefarious or not, I do think the editor at Rolling Stone intended this quote, possibly quite literally: says Rolling Stone managing editor Will Dana, "the sense that there are stories burning inside them, and that there's no higher calling or greater way to live life than to be always relentlessly trying to find and tell those stories. I'm sad that I'll never get to publish all the great stories that he was going to write, I hope if he were working on new stories, that he at least left some notes behind. Also, the global surveillance grid is a double-edged sword. I'd love to see some GPS data and final tracking of this journalist before he died. Anyhow, I don't choose to live my life thinking all these events and accidents are anything other than they seem. But I do hope we still have great journalists in our world who will expose reality to us when events are not as we thought. I'd love to read an alternate take on this journalist's accident, but until that story is published, I'm not turning into a conspiracy theorist. Amazingly, in recent weeks, I have felt very much like one, but it's just because I read the news and many nutcase theories have been proven to be very much true and widely acknowledged by the public (versus 5 years ago when talking about the government reading your email made you a tinfoil hat lunatic amongst non-programmers).

nonetheless, these things are not unknown to have happened nefariously

tptacek 13y ago

If that's true, you should be able to provide an example.

protomyth 13y ago
I don't believe this was nefarious and I do respect you tptacek, but cutting the break line is not an unknown way to attempt to off someone. It was even in the wheelhouse of these gomers http://5newsonline.com/2013/03/06/moms-brake-line-cut-over-custody-fight-police-say/ http://5newsonline.com/2013/03/06/moms-brake-line-cut-over-c...
- tptacek 13y ago
  Any cases where anyone murdered a reporter by sabotaging their car, or where the US government murdered a reporter by any means at all would be fine.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    Well, define "US government". Does every single US politician have to be in the same room and give the order, or what? http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/07/iraq-j01.html http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/07/iraq-j01.html The killing of journalists seeking to document or expose allegations of state-organised murder has accompanied every dirty war against a civilian population. Since the US occupation of Iraq began, dozens of reporters, cameramen and other media workers have been killed by American-led forces in suspicious circumstances that were never independently investigated.
  - contingencies 13y ago
    http://collateralmurder.com/ http://collateralmurder.com/
  - protomyth 13y ago
    David Holden was believed to have been killed by the CIA (either on order via Egyptians or directly). Multiple car bombs have killed journalists in Iraq, but I seem to remember a case in the US (will look later) of the brake line cut variety.
  - GalacticDomin8r 13y ago
    Google much? http://www.ire.org/about/history/ http://www.ire.org/about/history/
    - kragen 13y ago
      While, as others pointed out, the well-known Collateral Murder video is in part about the US Government murdering a team of journalists, I don't see anything on that page or on the timeline it links to saying the US Government was involved in murdering Don Bolles.
  - sillysaurus 13y ago
    You know it's a bad week on HN when tptacek (or anyone) is downvoted for asking for an example of a far-fetched claim.
    - tptacek 13y ago
      It was a really dumb question for me to have asked; it's like I dared them.
      - protomyth 13y ago
        An open-ended question like that about people's foolish ways to try to off their fellows in a single profession[1] is going to generate a lot of examples. Car bombs seem to be an easy way with some folks[2]. Heck, fark.com has many on a weekly basis. Reading the Church Committee stuff gives a pretty good idea of how wild west our government got (and likely still is given the drones). For the record, I still think this incident was a simple accident. 1) en.rsf.org keeps track of attacks on the press 2) Nasrullah Afridi died on May 10 when a bomb exploded under his car after he entered it.
      - coldtea 13y ago
        Yes, it was really a dumb question. And the condescending tone, of the American that believes everything he is told even more so. Hindsight's a bitch too: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/24/journalist-michael-hastings-last-email-fbis-invest/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jun/24/journalist-m...
  - rdl 13y ago
    The US has killed a lot of journalists internationally. Generally more in the form of "collateral damage" (often acknowledged), but I'm pretty willing to believe either US personnel or those acting as its agents did murder people in various Central/South American and African conflicts in the 40s-80s (and mainly pre-Church).
  - samstave 13y ago
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16501566 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16501566 I find it really amazing that you are not well versed in some of the tactics employed in international espionage and "source neutralization".... As someone who is purportedly a security expert, I believe it would behoove you to square up on physical/psychological/political warfare -- as cyberwar is simply an additional channel for the stated three. TpTacek, you're brilliant,but sometimes you're also an... I am beginning to think your paycheck is subsidized by those who would want you to use your credibility in their favor but at detriment to your own...
- lazyjones 13y ago
  With modern cars, you don't need to cut brake lines. You just connect something to the OBD-2 port and control it as you like: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9229919/Car_hacking_Remote_access_and_other_security_issues http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9229919/Car_hacking_R...
triplesec 13y ago
I don' necessarily believe this is nefarious. I just believe we should remember that it's possible. Proof is hard when it's the CIA. They're professionals at covering things up. I'm far from an Alex Jones on such things, but I like to be highly sceptical of everything, and keep an open mind. Here is a historical maybe: I don't have time to trawl through for good ones, as there are a lot of more, er.. unusual sites out there who'll believe anything. However, there are some aspersions cast over the deaths of some former white house aides too. http://spartacus-educational.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/did-cia-murder-journalist-working-on.html http://spartacus-educational.blogspot.co.uk/2009/09/did-cia-...
coldtea 13y ago
Journalists have been killed by governments (and police) all over the world, including in Western countries. And lots have been murdered by unknown persons while investigating political corruption and similar matters. Those kind of things can vary from a targeted operation to a general "go get those troublemakers by any means necessary" attitude instilled to the police. Stuff like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rub%C3%A9n_Salazar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rub%C3%A9n_Salazar Or several of the cases in here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_t... Of course they don't go advertising those kind of things. What sometimes gets known is only due to gross cases of incompetence or pure chance. To a guy that's into the official versions of things it can sound ludicrous. But then again, worse things happened. He would have said the exact same thing for this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiment
GalacticDomin8r 13y ago
> If that's true, you should be able to provide an example. Are you saying you're not aware of any retribution killings for journalism? I'm all for skepticism, but I've always understood that to mean it's your own problem to dig into this stuff. Asking for citation on a common knowledge item does no one any favors most especially yourself. http://cpj.org/reports/2005/05/murderous-05.php http://cpj.org/reports/2005/05/murderous-05.php
adventured 13y ago
I'm not listing this as an actual example, it's just for fun in the name of conspiracy theories in regards to powerful political figures murdering people: The Clinton body count (and I'll admit, it's a freaky list, but probably only because so many people have crossed paths with the Clintons) http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp http://www.snopes.com/politics/clintons/bodycount.asp

logn 13y ago

Whether nefarious or not, I do think the editor at Rolling Stone intended this quote, possibly quite literally: says Rolling Stone managing editor Will Dana, "the sense that there are stories burning inside them, and that there's no higher calling or greater way to live life than to be always relentlessly trying to find and tell those stories. I'm sad that I'll never get to publish all the great stories that he was going to write, I hope if he were working on new stories, that he at least left some notes behind. Also, the global surveillance grid is a double-edged sword. I'd love to see some GPS data and final tracking of this journalist before he died. Anyhow, I don't choose to live my life thinking all these events and accidents are anything other than they seem. But I do hope we still have great journalists in our world who will expose reality to us when events are not as we thought. I'd love to read an alternate take on this journalist's accident, but until that story is published, I'm not turning into a conspiracy theorist. Amazingly, in recent weeks, I have felt very much like one, but it's just because I read the news and many nutcase theories have been proven to be very much true and widely acknowledged by the public (versus 5 years ago when talking about the government reading your email made you a tinfoil hat lunatic amongst non-programmers).